Need advice on ear training

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twistedtom
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Need advice on ear training

Post by twistedtom »

I am working on some ear training and trying to take my playing to a new level. I am playing non-diatonic jazz progressions with lots of extended chords and key changes. I am playing a melody, some leads and also playing harmonies on guitar. I am finding it harder to do than I think I should. I work out the key changes so as to know what key I should be in at the time, and then I center it around a point on the neck so as to make it more musical. I figure out what mode works for the key change at that spot on the neck say the 8th fret and change modes. I do travel a bit around the neck but I am trying to make it sound not jumpy. Then I am using mostly the 6th and 3rd degrees as harmonies from the mode the melody is in. So I am using the mode that works at the place on the neck where the harmony is. As I am in the same key but a different mode this means the step progression of the harmonies are not always the same so this is a bit of work to get in to my thick head.
Some times I am playing and miss a key change and when I hear it back I feel like I am just not hearing it or some thing but man it is harder than it sounds. I have played quite a bit of non-diatonic music and if I can fall back on the pentatonic scales can manage to do fine. I do not know if I am just venting my frustration at the moment or I am hoping for some magic guidance from some one. I do not know how clear I wrote this but I hope you follow what I am saying.
:banghead:
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fullertime
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Need advice on ear training

Post by fullertime »

I would suggest taking a deep breath and committing to an "Ear Training" program.

I personally own the David Lucas Burge series on developing Perfect Pitch and I must say that it has been amazing!!!

Realize that ear development takes time so don't get too frustrated in the process. But the sky is the limit as long as you are willing to put the work into it. It's a fun journey!

You can google the above mentioned series and you will find lots of literature. It's a bit pricy but well worth it.

Good luck

Fuller
FULLER - Raleigh/Durham, NC

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twistedtom
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Re: Need advice on ear training

Post by twistedtom »

I will look him up. Today I did much better but I have to work at it.
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Frodo
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Re: Need advice on ear training

Post by Frodo »

twistedtom wrote:I am working on some ear training and trying to take my playing to a new level....
Typically, I would discourage off-the-shelf commercial training self-help programs, but Tom-- you and I have hung out over some very good food (extremely important). I believe that you posses the vision and the internal resources to do what any training program might otherwise inspire. One of these self-help programs just may light your fire, but you already have had all of your kindling in place.

Honestly? Dude-- you live in a great area loaded with amazing musicians. First, you should seek out Jerry Hahn or a TON of other cats in your area just as amazing. It will change your life. Jazz need not be "the thing".

It doesn't matter what the musical style is. It's much more important to understand that it's the musical motivation and the musical inspiration no matter what "type" of music you're into. The drive, determination, and energy source are all the same in every field. The lesson is learning how to tap into each to set yourself on fire!

From THAT point, you will know how to proceed with personal development.
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Kubi

Re: Need advice on ear training

Post by Kubi »

Opinionated post alert - comes from a well-meaning place tho... :D

To be frank, to me the whole idea of practicing like that seems misguided (and usually the results sound like "Jazz degree playing"... which is a far bigger crime against humanity than even Muzak or Kenny G.) :D

The secret is in the individual pieces, and in singing.

So I say ditch the guitar, and learn a single piece until it is as familiar to you as your drive to the supermarket. (Meaning, you don't need ANY directions, any theory, any crutches, you know THE MUSIC by heart, backwards and forwards.) As you work on the piece you sing to it, sing the melody, sing held notes like backgrounds, sing solos, etc.

Do this with ONE SINGLE PIECE for as long as you can stand it every day for at least two weeks. Once you know the piece AD NAUSEAM, bring the guitar in, but you merely duplicate your singing. Don't worry about keys and note-names, like you don't worry about directions on your drive to the supermarket. You just turn. And don't allow your hands to do stuff because they've been conditioned to move there. It ALL has to come from the singing.

Once you got the first piece like that completely under your skin, move to a second one, etc. After a hundred pieces (you'll get much faster in absorbing the music with each piece...) you will be able to hear *everything* in *any piece* of that style, forever. And you'll *happen* to know the theory but it won't be the source of your music. It'll be to your playing what your knowledge of English grammar is to your day-to-day conversation in English - an *analysis tool*.

Academia is killing music, so whatever you do, don't do what the Jazz schools or composition departments do... it's all in the music, and ONLY in the music.

My very opinionated opinion...
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Pappy725
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Re: Need advice on ear training

Post by Pappy725 »

Kubi> +1!

My guitar playing buddy wants to put out a guitar learning course and it's all about the singing. "If you can sing it, you can play it." It just makes sense.

Pappy
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twistedtom
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Re: Need advice on ear training

Post by twistedtom »

I use the singing method and feel it is a very good start but I all so feel that there needs to be an understanding of what it is you are listening to and why it works, therefor music theory.
I think there is room for both methods. I mostly play rock so jazz is not my best area and takes more work to hear so I have decided to revisit playing intervals on the key board and listening to the notes with lots of extended chords. The idea is to play the best notes at the right time and to know why they are the best choices. I feel it is importent to know how to set up a change with the best passing tones and yes to feel it and have it inside.
I have some friends that play guitar well and are good mechanics at playing but they have a hard time playing so others can play with them as they do not understand predictable and logical changes or what chords fit what keys and what scales to use and when so they just play what they think is cool, and it is not always.

You all have good advice and thanks I will most likely keep the singing method and the study of theory method for ear training for now as I see the David Lucas Burge series cost $400 which I am not able to spend right now.

Kubi Keny G's has one and only one song he always plays, all his music sounds the same, too bad he does not have a few more songs.
It does sound a bit boring. :roll: :lol:
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, kelsey and Yamaha mixers, Rack of gear. Guitars, piano, PA and more stuff.
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twistedtom
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Re: Need advice on ear training

Post by twistedtom »

I am making head way and one thing I did that helped is after I made the melody line to sing it a bunch of times,So in a way I followed your advice kubi and Pappy, I kind of have to remember to do this.

Thanks for the kind words Frodo.

The one thing about music is you always have some thing to learn.
Mac Pro 2.8G 8 core,16G ram, 500GB SSD, 2x2TB HD.s 3TB HD, Extn Backup HDs,Nvd 8800 & ATI 5770 video cards,DP8 on OS 10.6.8 and OS 10.8; MOTU 424PCIe, MOTU 2408; Micro express. Video editing deck on firewire, a bunch of plug-ins and VI's.Including; MX3 and M5-3. FCP, Adobe Production Bundle CS6. PCM88mx, some vintage synths linked by MIDI. Mackie 16-4 is my main mixers
, kelsey and Yamaha mixers, Rack of gear. Guitars, piano, PA and more stuff.
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