What's the "audiophile" deal?

[niccolo]

HI folks.
it puzzles me more often these days how come a person could spend up to 15000 $ on a 4 meter speaker cable, well 15000$ is a little extreme but also 169$ makes my eyebrows rise.
If i read a mic/pre/speaker/younameit review in a recording mag even if the article dives in very deep in technical jargon and hard-to-explain subjective sonical evaluations the cables used are never mentioned and that's what i've been thinkin so far: use a good cable made with good components and shut up! i solder all my cables and with the above statement in mind i very seldom spend more than 30 bucks per cable VERY SELDOM.
Now, if you read an audiophile mag review of a component the cable brand is always mentioned and you can stay shure that every single big-name audiophile cable will impart a beneifit on the audio chain: Warm, thin, crisp, wide, narrow, you name it.
those same cables are VERY EXPENSIVE.
so, what's the deal?
why don't we all buy the most expensive cables around if they improve the signal so much?

sorry for the ranty

nicco

[porieux]

You need good quality, but after that is hype-land. Since audio can be so subjective apparently it's easy to convince people who have too much extra money on their hands, like a placebo effect.

<small>[ July 14, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: porieux ]</small>

[BradLyons]

Well, understand that something as small as a cable CAN be a huge impact on your sound quality... but depending on the level of gear one has, it may or may not be as apparent. I've invested a great deal into my home-studio not just in the gear, but the room. I finally bit the bullet several months ago and bought some ADAM Audio monitors, I'm using high-end converters, top-grade microphones, etc.... I can NOW hear the difference in various cables, so much so that it's pretty astonishing when I'm mixing. With these same cables, I couldn't hear it before when using my EVENT ASP8's and other converters. Sometimes the cabling can be the short-coming to a setup, but you may not really hear it because the gear you're using may not allow that.... with that said, I don't think one should spend a fortune on cables and cut corners on other aspects. For most, just good quality cable is fine... top-grade cable, on some levels it is needed and there really can be a noticeable difference. I don't get this stuff for free, I too have to pay money. I'm fortunate that I'm in a position to be able to try products out next to each other at any point that is convenient for me. If I truly didn't hear a difference in (for example) Monster Cable over another brand, I wouldn't have just spent a few thousand dollars just on cables. But after hearing the difference, I wouldn't have been happy NOT making this purchase.

[bassie12]

I believe one should take all reasonable steps to make one's recording environmant as functional and accurate as possible. I also believe that people who spend more energy listening to wire than music need to get jobs as hifi salesmen and get out of the way of music and musicians. One of my favorite audiophile quotes from the early 80s went something like this: "a wonderful record with incredible imaging and dynamics...surprising because professional studio gear rarely meets audiophile specifications".

I'm sure everything in any of our project studios today "out-specs" everything the Beatles ever used at Abbey Road. How many of us have made better records?

Gear is important. The people using it are more important.

[BradLyons]

I wouldn't say that people listen to wire per say... just when you start to accumulate high-end gear and upgrade cabling, you will hear the short-falls at that point. In my studio, you CAN hear the difference if I pull out a Monster cable from one of my pres and replace it with a low-grade cable, it's THAT noticeable. Most setups won't be as tuned to that level to hear it, therefore you can't. It's hearing things like this personally and hands on that force me to get the best quality I can, because I know that I'm cutting corners if I don't. To spend time listening to cables is a time-waste IMHO, but from experience using different products and using your ears to tell you what's going on...that is just experience.

[draudio2u]

I have heard the difference in wires or any of the "audiophile" gear verses "pro" audio. What I laugh at - really laugh at , is the creative writing that goes into these audiophile magazines which then get quoted to me by either a client or wealthy music lover. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being wealthy, but I hate the fact that they lost there money to hype rather than going towards something more benificial - like becoming a benifactor to an upcoming musician

[Jim]

I straddle the film, video and audio worlds, and read a lot about equipment from the trade rags. My experience is that there's more pure unadulterated bullsh•• in the marketing of audio products than in any similar industry. You never read VTR manufacturers making claims about their gear having "warmth", "depth" and other subjective or un-definable qualities. They stick to facts, specs and quantifiable characteristics. I don't believe anything I hear from a single source. If there isn't unanimous agreement about the virtues of any piece of gear, I maintain that it's only wise to be skeptical.

One of the areas that vexes me most is the mystique (or bullsh••) surrounding pre-amps. Some say that an expensive pre-amp makes a huge difference in sound quality, while others see nothing wrong with using the pres on a Mackie. I tend to believe that people hyping this stuff have an axe to grind some how... maybe they spent a couple thou for a pre-amp, and don't want to sound foolish, so they defend their choice by heralding the virtues of their choice. I think that if things are obvious, then everybody should see (or hear) them, right?

<small>[ July 18, 2005, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Jim ]</small>

[BradLyons]

Unfortunately with audio, specs rarely tell the story. Specs don't tell you how a microphone sounds. You can have two mics with the exact same frequency response and polar patterns, yet sound worlds apart in tonal quality, for example.

[Jim]

There was a story on 20/20 last Friday about whether oysters were an aphrodisiac. They interviewed a bunch of people at an oyster bar, who overwhelmingly declared that oysters indeed enhanced their sex lives.

Then they talked to some physicians and scientists, who maintained there is NO empirical evidence that oysters have an effect on sex drive. But one added that if people truly BELIEVE that oysters put them in the mood, then it follows that they will likely BE more in the mood after eating them.

See what I mean?

[qo]

Originally posted by Jim:
See what I mean?

Absolutely. I've always thought my preamps sounded much better after eating oysters.

[m2]

I find my Bogner guitar amp sounds much better after eating Mexican.

[Jim]

Speaking of media hype, qo... I checked out your gear page... nice toys! ... I'm wondering if your impressions of the Earthworks Drum Mic kit live up to the hype in their current ad campaign. I would appreciate your thoughts when you're not under the influence of bi-valves, though.

[draudio2u]

Sorry, but put up a pair of Mackie 1604 mic pre's against say - Grace, and you will hear the difference. If you don't, you might want to get out the Q-tips. It is THAT obvious.

[qo]

Originally posted by Jim:
Speaking of media hype, qo... I checked out your gear page... nice toys! ... I'm wondering if your impressions of the Earthworks Drum Mic kit live up to the hype in their current ad campaign. I would appreciate your thoughts when you're not under the influence of bi-valves, though.

Hee, thanks Jim. I've use the DrumKit on a couple sessions and it definitely has it's place. Though, close micing also has a place, especially when the room doesn't flatter the drum sound (and my living room probably fits that category). But, I used one of the DrumKit omni's last week for a room sound on electric guitar and it was good for that application as well. If I had e.g. a QTC40 laying around, I'd probably grab that instead, but don't have the budget for it. I'm sure the omnis in the DrumKit would work on acoustic as well, or a number of other sources. I haven't trying the cardiod with anything but bass drum yet. I also want to try the included KickPad with other mics, and not just on bass drum.

One negative is that one of the omnis sometimes stops working, as if the internal connection for phantom power is flakey. So, these are gonna get RMA'ed soon. I hear Earthworks is great with exchanges, but we'll see.

Anyway, if you're going for a natural live sound, or recording e.g. blues, jazz, etc, the DrumKit sure is convenient and does a decent job. I'm happy with the purchase, mainly because it reacquainted me with a minimalist 3-mic drum technique after years of close micing. You could just as easily use two other omnis, and a cardiod of your choosing, and buy the KickPad separately (or not). I'm definitely going to start experimenting more with fewer mics as a result of my experience with these.