Giving Waves a 2nd chance...

[FMiguelez]

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Damn it!

They had me by the balls already, so I fugured -what the hell. Let them have a tighter grip on them

After spending a few minutes on the phone with one of their reps, I decided to get the upgrades to the full featured Tune and IR1 plugs.

I might even go for the Mercury thing in a couple of months...

I just REALLY hope they don't make me go through this non-DP-support thing again.

According to him, the patch they've been working on includes the MAS to AU portation, thus the lag, and DP 5 support is, in theory, due with in the next couple of months

I just LOVE those plugs. I figured I'd take the risk of getting bitten in the butt in the future, but knowing they dropped MAS and just concentrate on AU will *hopefully* make this less likely.

Sweetwater gave me this SWEET deal I just couldn't resist.


Well, let's see.

[Phil O]

We'll see. If and when they get their poop in a group regarding DP, I'll consider re-upping my WUPing. I'm gonna wait and see what folks are saying before I send them any more money.

Phil

[FMiguelez]

I'll consider re-upping my WUPing. I'm gonna wait and see what folks are saying before I send them any more money.

I'll let you know on my end.

Also, they said that ASA they have the patch out and working, that's when we'll work out the WUP extention deal to make up/offset for the lost time for the lack of DP support.

It LOOKS like they are wiling to extend our WUPS. Let's just see how, and if it's fair and enough for us.

[BradLyons]

Waves certainly has created a division of supporters and nay-sayers because of their WUP policy, I can understand why---likewise I also understand why they need to do it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong on both sides, but that I do understand both views and sides. I'm caught in the middle---some of my customers are happy to pay the WUP for the additional plugins and technical support they receive while others feel it's not right. It's a Catch22, really.

With all that said, they do make some GREAT plugins! I personally have the DiamondTDM, SSL TDM and a few others--the SSL bundle is what I primarily use for EQ and basic compression, with all the plugins I have I think that's saying something about their quality. TO put it into perspective, I have (2) iLoks just for iLok based authorizations of individual and bundled plugins NOT including software synths on things such as Ethno, MachFive, etc so that's ALOT of plugins (limit of 128 authorizations per iLok).

[Phil O]

---some of my customers are happy to pay the WUP for the additional plugins and technical support they receive while others feel it's not right.

The problem I'm having, Brad, is NOT that it's right or wrong, but that the tech support outright SUCKS! There is no tech support. The times I've e-mailed tech support, I've gotten lip service. I essentially paid my last year of WUP and haven't had the opportunity to use Waves products once with DP on my Mac Pro. It's been over a year since I've been able to use Waves. Every other manufacturer's plug-ins that I use have had UB versions that work fine with DP out for quite a while now (without the need for WUP!)

Can you see my frustration? It's not a question of whether WUP is good or bad. It's that Waves hasn't delivered what I've already paid for. That's supposedly the whole point of WUP - better support, prepaid. Don't you think that over a year with no support is ridiculous? If you ignored your DP based customers for over a year would you still have a job?

Waves had better come up with a very generous WUP extension. Year and a half MINIMUM!

Phil

[BradLyons]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh I see what you're saying now!

[Shooshie]

Waves certainly has created a division of supporters and nay-sayers because of their WUP policy, I can understand why---likewise I also understand why they need to do it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong on both sides, but that I do understand both views and sides. I'm caught in the middle---some of my customers are happy to pay the WUP for the additional plugins and technical support they receive while others feel it's not right. It's a Catch22, really.

With all that said, they do make some GREAT plugins! I personally have the DiamondTDM, SSL TDM and a few others--the SSL bundle is what I primarily use for EQ and basic compression, with all the plugins I have I think that's saying something about their quality. TO put it into perspective, I have (2) iLoks just for iLok based authorizations of individual and bundled plugins NOT including software synths on things such as Ethno, MachFive, etc so that's ALOT of plugins (limit of 128 authorizations per iLok).

It's simple: it comes down to whether or not your received anything for what you paid. I paid a lot of money for WUP. A LOT. I could have bought an entire plugin line for what I paid for several years of WUP. For the past year or more, I've received nothing.

No compatibility at all. Nothing. Anything that has worked has worked by luck. Call tech support and they're like "uh... you KNOW we don't support you, don't you?" But they have to listen anyway, because they also know I paid for it. So what did I pay for? Someone to sit on a phone and twiddle his thumbs while I talk needlessly about nothing?

That's why there is a division. No, there's not two sides to this story. There are simply those for whom Waves has created a product and those for whom they have not. For each group, there is only one side. For my group -- the unsupported group -- there is one side to the story. A corporation chose to ignore us. They do not have a good reason for it. Cost them too much money? Then refund us our money and get out of it. Don't string us along like this. They're just being greedy unless they plan to fix it. And if they're planning to fix it, why take so long?

I hope I run into these people at a convention or some place. It will be more than a piece of my mind that I give them. (That's not a violent threat... Just a notice that I have plenty to say to them) They are wrong, wrong, wrong, and I'm fed up to here with their excuses and pandering. It's time to make good on their promises and do it quickly.

Shooshie

[BobK]

According to him, the patch they've been working on includes the MAS to AU portation, thus the lag, and DP 5 support is, in theory, due with in the next couple of months

Back in late June, Barry Cohen at Waves told me (via email) the update was due in about a month, hopefully sooner. After reading this, I emailed him asking if it had been delayed further. FWIW, today he wrote back:

"We are waiting on this release to come out any day. I know as much as you do at this point and surly will update you once I know more."

I'm a new customer of Waves (just under four months) - I don't have as much to gripe about - but their delay in DP support is outrageous. Since March, before I decided to buy the Renn Maxx bundle, they've been telling me 'about a month' for the DP update (but make no formal statement on their web site) and then they keep rolling out entire new bundles of plug-ins (V-series, API, etc). That shows me where their priorities lie. I'd be very hesitant to give them any more business in the future, even after they do post the update.

[BradLyons]

Hey guys if you don't mind.... PLEASE, feel free to email me directly @ brad_lyons@sweetwater.com with your name, email address (well, duh on that one) and your location with what your current situation is and your feelings on that situation. I'm not promising anything other than reading each one of them and trying to get them into the hands of higher up to evaluate.

[FMiguelez]

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I don't want to give the impression that I'm deffending Waves. This lack of DP support should be embarassing for them, and it's obvious they've lost a LOT of potential new customers and a lot of current customer's hearts as well. After all, they're the only reason why I am STILL working on DP 4.6

On the other hand, all things being equal, I'm not sure many other companies would have done things differently. It's understandabe (though it sucks for us) that they give support first to the DAWs where there's more market share first, and take longer to support the one where there's the least (saddly us).

They'd have to be crazy if they took this long for PT users, wouldn't they?
Now, the nasty thing is why they have to choose whom to serve first/last?

I'd think they certainly have the resources to avoid this, and just have different teams adjusting and tweaking for the different apps at the same time. However, they INSIST that MOTU played a big part in this delay.
There's no way for us to know for sure, but if MOTU didn't cooperate, or deviated a lot from the AU standard, then that means that there's more to the story than just blaming Waves.

They will earn back a LOT more of my respect if they provide us with a fair WUP extention, so we don't feel cheated. I think this is one of the things people feel worse about. But if they do comply, I think (for me), their quality and great sound deserve a second chance.
Risky, I know. But they might just nicely surprise us all.

OR, I might end up looking very foolish, and feeling cheated AGAIN...

Knowing this, I decided to buy more of their stuff, knowing in fact that they might dissapoint me again, despite their less-than-good CS record. I'm just willing to take the chance. I do hope, however, that I don't get stuck in DP 5 for years while you guys are in DP 10

I just figured it's a worthy risk to take. Time will tell, I suppose...

[billf]

That's why there is a division. No, there's not two sides to this story. There are simply those for whom Waves has created a product and those for whom they have not. For each group, there is only one side. For my group -- the unsupported group -- there is one side to the story. A corporation chose to ignore us. They do not have a good reason for it. Cost them too much money? Then refund us our money and get out of it. Don't string us along like this. They're just being greedy unless they plan to fix it. And if they're planning to fix it, why take so long?

I've been a Waves customer for nearly a decade. When I originally bought my bundles there was no WUP program. I've spent so much with Waves, and bascially have the same plugins that I originally bought back in the day. There are no upgrades, like you get with most plugin developers. There is no tech support, like you get with most developers. There's nothing but arrogance and demand from Waves for more of my money for little to nothing in return.

I wish the OP of this thread the utmost in luck with Waves, but unless they do a complete turnabout in their policies and approach to customers, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[HCMarkus]

Thanks Brad. I sent you an email.