OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

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FMiguelez
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OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by FMiguelez »

I think Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue is one of the most amazing pieces ever written. It has everything music should be: the most beautiful harmonies, melodies, rhythms and orchestral colors. AND, when you hear it with a gorgeous performance like this, courtesy of none other than godess Yuja Wang, it sounds even better.

I don't think I have ever heard a more thrilling and dazzling performance than this, and I've heard dozens of performances. She got me literaly on the edge of my chair watching her. For the first time, I could hear every note, every nuance and detail of this masterful piece of music. She brings out other voices more than usual in exciting ways.

This woman must be an alien from a far far galaxy...

Sit back, relax and enjoy! :love:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9CTp2Nk9OxI
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by cuttime »

Thanks for the link. It is a beautiful performance. Have you heard the Gershwin piano roll performance? Makes me think that tempi notation is all out of whack. Ms. Wang is superlative, I only wish she didn't have to result to rock star theatrics.
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by cuttime »

Can we both admit we have a crush on Ms. Wang?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAk61xEZ80
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by FMiguelez »

cuttime wrote:Thanks for the link. It is a beautiful performance. Have you heard the Gershwin piano roll performance? Makes me think that tempi notation is all out of whack. Ms. Wang is superlative, I only wish she didn't have to result to rock star theatrics.
Ha! For my taste, I think her "theatrics" are totally genuine and almost necessary. I totally buy them.

BUT, I do nominate Mr. Lang Lang for the Award of Awkward and Spurious Rockstar Theatrics.
And he is not remotely as good as Yuja. He's like 100 leagues below.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jYO9gTmCJTE
cuttime wrote:Can we both admit we have a crush on Ms. Wang?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAk61xEZ80
Oh, yes! :love:

Thank you for the link. I hadn't seen that one before. The clarity of her performance!

BTW, is it just me, or is Scarlatti's keyboard music more exciting and interesting than WAM's in general?
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by cuttime »

FMiguelez wrote: BTW, is it just me, or is Scarlatti's keyboard music more exciting and interesting than WAM's in general?
I'm a huge fan and proponent of Domenico's keyboard music. Its simplicity is its highest hurdle. I've always had problems with "definitive" Scarlatti performances, even those of Horowitz. Who is WAM? :?:

Edit: OH OK! That Mozart guy! Yeah, his keyboard music can be rather derivative and uninspired, but there are flashes of other-worldly genius here and there, particularly his works in minor keys.
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by mikehalloran »

Nice performance. I couldn't watch it as the sync is so bad but it enjoyable to hear.

It holds up nicely to the Oscar Levant recording from 1945, IMO.
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by Shooshie »

cuttime wrote:Thanks for the link. It is a beautiful performance. Have you heard the Gershwin piano roll performance? Makes me think that tempi notation is all out of whack. Ms. Wang is superlative, I only wish she didn't have to result to rock star theatrics.
Piano rolls were much more subjective than you'd think. First of all, the dynamics were applied by a "MIDI Dude" of the age. A guy with a stylus sat there and adjusted the size of the holes for the vacuum, in order to approximate the dynamics of the performance he heard. Those dynamics were not possible to create with the performer playing the piano, because any kind of mechanism with the power to make holes according to dynamic size would have required more effort, thereby destroying the subtleties of all but specially trained individuals, who arguably would not be putting out a performance we'd want to pay for, anyway. The technicians who poked the holes were very good at what they did. They were also kept secret. The Aeolian company, and others, did not want anyone knowing that anything about the roll was other than the actual performer's work. Even if it was a nearly perfect replica, the issues of ownership, of authenticity, etc., would jeopardize their entire industry.

Tempos are another thing. The master was created at the ideal speed. Whether another piano could achieve exactly the same speed is up for grabs. Variations in turbine speed from different power companies could account for differing playback speeds. I think the 60 cycle standard in the US was probably applied after electric clocks didn't work. Niagara Falls, for example, was originally 25 Hz. 50 to 60 Hz has been the standard, but it still varies from country to country. As far as wind-up or pedal powered rolls, there's just no such thing as a standard speed. It's tempting to think of piano rolls as being similar to what we do with MIDI, but in fact they were a poor representation of the original compared to what we can do.

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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by cuttime »

Shooshie wrote:
Piano rolls were much more subjective than you'd think.
Thanks for the lesson, Shoosh. Yes, I always thought that Gershwin was a speed freak, and Googling around for piano rolls has turned up RiB performances of his ranging from 9:00 to 14:28! Even though Gershwin recorded them more than once, I see that the tempos are all over the place and totally lacking in any standardization.
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by Shooshie »

I guess it all comes down to personal taste, but I prefer some of the American renderings of that piece. Bernstein, for example. There are others, but I just don't remember them right now. And I particularly prefer American orchestras. The "jazzy" stuff just comes natural to most American players. I'm thinking particularly of the winds. Gershwin really knew how to write for saxophones, given that they were the "string section" of a lot of big bands of his era. Wasn't Rhapsody in Blue premiered by the Paul Whiteman orchestra? It was like a studio orchestra. A small string section in a regular big band. That clarinet solo must be one of the most awkward things ever written. It's a rare orchestral clarinetist who really makes it sing. I always enjoyed playing Gershwin in the orchestra, my favorite performance being under the direction of Mitch Miller, who knew how to pull every last gasp of expression out of that piece.

I'm glad that other countries enjoy it, too, but just as a German would probably rip me to shreds with a laendler or waltz, I reserve American music "favorite" status for American groups. And yet, i'm not bad at a laendler! (Well, on 2nd thought, I probably am, and just don't know why.) Of course, in America, we dispute whether this is really even jazz at all. Jazzy, maybe. It's sure enjoyable music, whatever it is. Which brings up a whole genre of old orchestral pops music that has gone by the wayside. Dark Eyes, Jalousie, stuff by Leroy Anderson... it's all but disappeared from our ears today. Maybe if you go to a pops concert they still play that stuff; I don't know. Haven't done that. But that was what was popular when Gershwin wrote his orchestral music. Gershwin was a welcome breath of fresh air. So different. Fortunately, the classical genre has rescued Gershwin since jazz wouldn't claim him. Not so much Jacob Gade (Tango Jalousie) and Leroy Anderson (The Typewriter, Waltzing Cat, etc.).

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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by Shooshie »

cuttime wrote:
Shooshie wrote:
Piano rolls were much more subjective than you'd think.
Thanks for the lesson, Shoosh. Yes, I always thought that Gershwin was a speed freak, and Googling around for piano rolls has turned up RiB performances of his ranging from 9:00 to 14:28! Even though Gershwin recorded them more than once, I see that the tempos are all over the place and totally lacking in any standardization.
Nine minutes? I'd like to hear THAT! Hahahaha...

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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by FMiguelez »

Shooshie wrote:
cuttime wrote:Thanks for the link. It is a beautiful performance. Have you heard the Gershwin piano roll performance? Makes me think that tempi notation is all out of whack. Ms. Wang is superlative, I only wish she didn't have to result to rock star theatrics.
Piano rolls were much more subjective than you'd think. First of all, the dynamics were applied by a "MIDI Dude" of the age. A guy with a stylus sat there and adjusted the size of the holes for the vacuum, in order to approximate the dynamics of the performance he heard. Those dynamics were not possible to create with the performer playing the piano, because any kind of mechanism with the power to make holes according to dynamic size would have required more effort, thereby destroying the subtleties of all but specially trained individuals, who arguably would not be putting out a performance we'd want to pay for, anyway. The technicians who poked the holes were very good at what they did. They were also kept secret. The Aeolian company, and others, did not want anyone knowing that anything about the roll was other than the actual performer's work. Even if it was a nearly perfect replica, the issues of ownership, of authenticity, etc., would jeopardize their entire industry.

Tempos are another thing. The master was created at the ideal speed. Whether another piano could achieve exactly the same speed is up for grabs. Variations in turbine speed from different power companies could account for differing playback speeds. I think the 60 cycle standard in the US was probably applied after electric clocks didn't work. Niagara Falls, for example, was originally 25 Hz. 50 to 60 Hz has been the standard, but it still varies from country to country. As far as wind-up or pedal powered rolls, there's just no such thing as a standard speed. It's tempting to think of piano rolls as being similar to what we do with MIDI, but in fact they were a poor representation of the original compared to what we can do.

Shooshie
See? THIS is why I like creating threads like this one> it's a joy to read all the knowledgeable comments from actual professional musicians, like you guys.

I had no idea what a Piano Roll was... I wasn't even aware of their existence, but now I am 8)
Shooshie wrote:I guess it all comes down to personal taste, but I prefer some of the American renderings of that piece. Bernstein, for example. There are others, but I just don't remember them right now. And I particularly prefer American orchestras. The "jazzy" stuff just comes natural to most American players. I'm thinking particularly of the winds. Gershwin really knew how to write for saxophones, given that they were the "string section" of a lot of big bands of his era. Wasn't Rhapsody in Blue premiered by the Paul Whiteman orchestra? It was like a studio orchestra. A small string section in a regular big band. That clarinet solo must be one of the most awkward things ever written. It's a rare orchestral clarinetist who really makes it sing. I always enjoyed playing Gershwin in the orchestra, my favorite performance being under the direction of Mitch Miller, who knew how to pull every last gasp of expression out of that piece.

I'm glad that other countries enjoy it, too, but just as a German would probably rip me to shreds with a laendler or waltz, I reserve American music "favorite" status for American groups. And yet, i'm not bad at a laendler! (Well, on 2nd thought, I probably am, and just don't know why.) Of course, in America, we dispute whether this is really even jazz at all. Jazzy, maybe. It's sure enjoyable music, whatever it is. Which brings up a whole genre of old orchestral pops music that has gone by the wayside. Dark Eyes, Jalousie, stuff by Leroy Anderson... it's all but disappeared from our ears today. Maybe if you go to a pops concert they still play that stuff; I don't know. Haven't done that. But that was what was popular when Gershwin wrote his orchestral music. Gershwin was a welcome breath of fresh air. So different. Fortunately, the classical genre has rescued Gershwin since jazz wouldn't claim him. Not so much Jacob Gade (Tango Jalousie) and Leroy Anderson (The Typewriter, Waltzing Cat, etc.).

Shooshie
Thank you for all that, Shoosh. And you're right about American Orchestras being more adept at this "jazzy" music more naturally. It needs a special "flavour" that you only get by having been exposed to LOTS of that music from an early age, i.e., being an American.

In the performance I cited in my OP, that was obvious in the trombone glissandos... , for instance. They are lacking that magic Big Band-ish flavour a bit. And it seemed to me that the orchestra was rushing Yuja in some parts, but then she takes it back to a slower tempo during her solos that lets the swing through more.
I still love Yuja's pformance, though, since it's so classy and different. And I love the way she brings out other inner voices to the foreground.

I've also been listening to Gershwin's concerto in F, and it's as good as the Rhapsody, especially the second movement. What a beautiful and masterful way of writing for the woodwinds!! I kept getting goose bumps... Those voicings and counterpoint are a-ma-zing.

Here it is if you want to hear it with her as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MDxKtkkbE7w


I am so getting both scores to study, learn and enjoy from one of my favourite masters.

During the evening I'll be looking for American Orchestras performances of both pieces. Yes, today was Gershwin Day for me :D
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by cuttime »

Gershwin's "Lullaby" is a piece that will haunt me to the end. Good luck finding a recording as Gershwin intended. I'ts not hard to play the piano solo, but I prefer the string quartet arrangement.
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by FMiguelez »

cuttime wrote:Gershwin's "Lullaby" is a piece that will haunt me to the end. Good luck finding a recording as Gershwin intended. I'ts not hard to play the piano solo, but I prefer the string quartet arrangement.
I don't know that piece. Will look it up. Thanks!

I used to play one of his preludes, and it was a joy... I shall retake it again...
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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by cuttime »

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Re: OMG! Best Gershwin performance EVER!

Post by Shooshie »

cuttime wrote:These guys aren't half bad!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q_hAAiyTSE
That was great, and true to the performers' origins, they pull out the middle-American roots of the piece. Gershwin was the melting pot incarnate. A Ukrainian (I think) Jew by heritage, living in New York, writing music of black and Caribbean (Latin) influence, in episodic style for New England audiences. And what the heck is American in Paris? What a wonderful piece music, yet it just has no classification. It's simply and only what the title says it is. Is it a tone poem? Only in the sense that there isn't really a definition of tone poem other than those created by Strauss, who dominated the genre. And incidentally, Strauss and Gershwin were contemporaries, with Strauss being the older by probably 30 years, but surviving Gershwin by at least a decade or more. I wish we'd had the privilege of hearing his music created at Strauss's age. He should have easily lived into the 1980s when I played this with the Dallas Symphony; this little bari sax solo was one of my small contributions to the cause:

Gershwin: American in Paris brief excerpt, DSO

I think the mistake we make in talking about Gershwin is to try to shoehorn him into jazz style. He doesn't fit the shoes. It's not jazz; it's American. He very much saw himself as a serious composer, not a jazz musician. By serious, I mean orchestral, instrumental, operatic. His Three Preludes, for instance, bear the title of short Bach and Chopin works, but together they form an expanded work for piano, American style. Ravel recognized this and refused to "teach" Gershwin, telling him "why be a second-rate Ravel when you're already a first-rate Gershwin?"

We have two big style groups that I think are uniquely American: those of folk roots, such as Shenandoah, which has to be my favorite song, of all songs, ever. It evokes the unspoiled beauty of all of America and the toil of life on rivers and ports. It was carried all over the world by ship crews, spreading the romance that brought far-flung people like Gershwin's folks to the New World. That style spreads all the way to the American West, the inspiration for the open 4ths and 5ths of Elmer Bernstein's and others' cowboy Western scores. The other style is that New York melting pot: black, latin, European classical, bursting with energy and able to take on any form or style without authenticity issues. That's Gershwin. I've known a lot of Americans writing music like that, never being heard, never imagining that they were NOT failed European wannabes, but were writing in a distinctly American style that SHOULD be heard. Thank goodness Gershwin was discovered.

And when I say American, I mean all the Americas, not just the USA, though his particular style is very much of New York. That's where all the styles fused, and Gershwin is the melting pot incarnate. I guess I said that already, so this is a good place to get out.

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