Dylan

[terrybritton]

Shooshie, that really was a terrific post there. Inspiring.

Thanks from me as well.

Terry

[bayswater]

Same here, Shooshie. Thanks for taking the time and effort.

[BKK-OZ]

Thanks from me as well Shooshie.

Nice to read a thoughtful, considered post.

[Babz]

Here's my take on it…

I have no doubt that Dylan's lyrics rise to the level of literature. And one could make the case for other songwriter's lyrics -- Paul Simon, Leonard Cohen, etc… You can certainly find song lyrics every bit as profound as Yeats, Jiimenz, Paz, Neruda, Walcott, or Blake, Rilke, Dickison … even Shakespeare.

So Dylan is certainly deserving as an artist, IMO.

But there is a wider issue, which is the very different worlds of literature/academia, and popular culture. Somebody like Dylan doesn't need the accolade, and certainly doesn't need the near-million-dollar prize. But that kind of money and exposure could make a huge difference in the life of a typical writer or poet, who so often struggle in obscurity and poverty.

So, while I think Dylan's genius certainly deserves the recognition, I'd rather see the award (and particularly the money) go to someone equally brilliant, but for whom the prize could be so much more life-changing.

Babz

[Shooshie]

But there is a wider issue, which is the very different worlds of literature/academia, and popular culture. Somebody like Dylan doesn't need the accolade, and certainly doesn't need the near-million-dollar prize. But that kind of money and exposure could make a huge difference in the life of a typical writer or poet, who so often struggle in obscurity and poverty.

So, while I think Dylan's genius certainly deserves the recognition, I'd rather see the award (and particularly the money) go to someone equally brilliant, but for whom the prize could be so much more life-changing.

It would be a nice gesture if Dylan would endow an annual award for struggling songwriters and/or poets. I think you make a good point, Babz, but I also see the need to make a broad statement that this man who has contributed so much in his life, even if he was paid very well for it, deserves the stamp of approval from a group that's not counting the units sold. Something that says "set your goals for this sort of thing."

Scientists who receive the Nobel are not usually struggling for recognition. They've usually devoted their lives to an idea which may yet be languishing undiscovered or unproven without their work. Most writers who receive it are pretty successful. If not famous to the general public, they are at least well known and respected by their peers. Choosing Dylan says that we don't have to disdain commercial artists for their success ("selling out"), but can offer special recognition to those who became successful while continuing to follow that inner compass that guided them early on before money was a big factor in their lives. It offers some guidance to the rich and famous who desperately need to learn that greed is not the only reason to achieve.

The more I think of it, the more I see the Nobel committee's decision a very logical one. Perhaps they should consider the net worth of a recipient and offer them the prize, but quietly encourage wealthy recipients to set the money in a foundation bearing their name for helping up-and-coming artists, and offer them the Nobel offices and resources to make it happen without a lot of effort.

Shooshie

[mhschmieder]

I'm more on the page with people who think Leonard Cohen or Joni Mitchell would have been better choices, but more due to the Big Picture in terms of their contribution to multiple art forms.

Dylan, to me, is a poet of sorts, if one is broad-minded about the definition. It's Dylan as a person that bothers me more in terms of the prize. He's always seemed like a misogynist to me.

Well, the idea of that prize has never been to reward someone for being great, but to encourage influential and powerful people to do good. Kind of a shaming technique that appeals to the ego.

[Shooshie]

Well, the idea of that prize has never been to reward someone for being great, but to encourage influential and powerful people to do good. Kind of a shaming technique that appeals to the ego.

Excellent observation! Especially in this case.

[HCMarkus]

Just need to add my kudos for your opening post here, Shooshie. Beautifully written; poetic in its own right. And the sentiments expressed appreciated.

Dare I say "The defense rests"?

[mhschmieder]

Maddy Prior of Steeleye Span (English folk revival band of the 70's and beyond) used to read her personal poems between songs, when she did solo and duo gigs. I thought it was interesting to note the different approach to lyrics vs. poetry by the very same artist.

[Shooshie]

Maddy Prior of Steeleye Span (English folk revival band of the 70's and beyond) used to read her personal poems between songs, when she did solo and duo gigs. I thought it was interesting to note the different approach to lyrics vs. poetry by the very same artist.

I'd like to hear Joni do that.

[mhschmieder]

Well, now we've lost Leonard Cohen, and Dylan himself sang his praises and felt indebted to him.

Cohen wrote a lot of actual poetry, and often talked about the different profit-margins of poetry vs. song lyrics.

At any rate, even Dylan probably now wishes Cohen had received the Nobel this time around, given the timing.