Waves new subscription plan

[David Polich]

Right idea - wrong pricing.

http://www.waves.com/subscriptions?utm_ ... scriptions

I think subscriptions are basically a good concept. I subscribe to the Slate Everything Bundle and for me its the best $400 I have ever spent in any year. But $1500 a year for a subscription...no.

[James Steele]

Right idea - wrong pricing.

http://www.waves.com/subscriptions?utm_ ... scriptions

I think subscriptions are basically a good concept. I subscribe to the Slate Everything Bundle and for me its the best $400 I have ever spent in any year. But $1500 a year for a subscription...no.

I'm glad you posted that. I was going to share my thoughts on it too. Seems like they had the crazy expensive Rolls Royce plan at $149/mo. then a cheapo $9.99/mo. plan that seems to include 16 very long-in-tooth old plugs that most people probably have better covered by other company's offerings already. I was disappointed that there was no middle ground... no $19.99 plan, etc.

[billf]

So is this basically a more expensive WUP, except that now you will get the benefit of the plugins no longer working once the subscription lapses?

[Shooshie]

Oh no. Is WUP still available? If you continue to use Waves, do you HAVE to do the subscription?

Will Waves ever be satisfied until they've sucked out all my money and spit out my empty, bankrupt carcass? I really try to keep using Waves. I know the plugins and like them. But few companies have courted my dislike so actively or successfully as that one.

Shooshie

[billf]

Oh no. Is WUP still available? If you continue to use Waves, do you HAVE to do the subscription?

Will Waves ever be satisfied until they've sucked out all my money and spit out my empty, bankrupt carcass? I really try to keep using Waves. I know the plugins and like them. But few companies have courted my dislike so actively or successfully as that one.

Shooshie

It better be optional, otherwise Waves are shooting themselves in the foot with existing customers. They seemed to return to sanity when they capped WUP at $400 per year, and didn't penalize for time lapses in renewals. But that was after they rolled out v1 of WUP, which was such a travesty that it still seems to affect their reputation.

[Shooshie]

Oh no. Is WUP still available? If you continue to use Waves, do you HAVE to do the subscription?

Will Waves ever be satisfied until they've sucked out all my money and spit out my empty, bankrupt carcass? I really try to keep using Waves. I know the plugins and like them. But few companies have courted my dislike so actively or successfully as that one.

Shooshie

It better be optional, otherwise Waves are shooting themselves in the foot with existing customers. They seemed to return to sanity when they capped WUP at $400 per year, and didn't penalize for time lapses in renewals. But that was after they rolled out v1 of WUP, which was such a travesty that it still seems to affect their reputation.

I have to ask: What is sane about capping WUP at $400/year? The lack of penalty for time lapses in renewals was so very lenient of them: "Now that you've invested thousands and thousands of dollars in our software, most of which is about 20 years old, we won't penalize you for not sending us $400 EVERY year; just 'upgrade' years." ("Upgrade," meaning they make it run again when Apple's OS upgrades break it... IF they decide to support your particular DAW that year. Sometimes that means just changing a version number in a bundled support file.)

The only other company that ALMOST reaches that level of hubris is Adobe. Not even Microsoft, of which I'm no fan, though I love Excel and sometimes Word, comes close.

Waves' various schemes to empty your pockets of hard-earned money border on fraud and extortion. They hold your investment hostage and ask you to pay about 25% ransom each year.

And yet I keep finding myself sending money to Waves. Those old plugins are still outstanding in interface, operation and sound. Likewise, every so many years I have to re-purchase Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. I've found things that almost replace Photoshop, but nothing comes close to Illustrator, and Photoshop is so perfectly integrated into it these days that I just go ahead and get them both. The software racket will keep working as long as there are OS upgrades. Apple's "free" upgrades cost me enormously.

Shooshie

[bayswater]

But it's inevitable. These companies (Waves, Adobe, etc) can't rely on getting loads of new users every year to pay for last year's development costs. Anyone who is going to buy, has bought.

I don't like the way Waves goes about solving their financial problems either, but does anyone have a better suggestion? I'm sure they'd pay well for a plan that keeps them in the black and doesn't alienate their customers.

[HCMarkus]

Makes you wonder when a Silver subscription costs $99 per year, and one could PURCHASE GOLD outright for $99 on sale last year.

A big problem for plug in companies is barriers to entry into their business are fairly low, so stiff competition is inevitable. I wish it were the same for Internet providers.

[billf]

I have to ask: What is sane about capping WUP at $400/year? The lack of penalty for time lapses in renewals was so very lenient of them: "Now that you've invested thousands and thousands of dollars in our software, most of which is about 20 years old, we won't penalize you for not sending us $400 EVERY year; just 'upgrade' years." ("Upgrade," meaning they make it run again when Apple's OS upgrades break it... IF they decide to support your particular DAW that year. Sometimes that means just changing a version number in a bundled support file.)

The only other company that ALMOST reaches that level of hubris is Adobe. Not even Microsoft, of which I'm no fan, though I love Excel and sometimes Word, comes close.

Waves' various schemes to empty your pockets of hard-earned money border on fraud and extortion. They hold your investment hostage and ask you to pay about 25% ransom each year.

And yet I keep finding myself sending money to Waves. Those old plugins are still outstanding in interface, operation and sound. Likewise, every so many years I have to re-purchase Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. I've found things that almost replace Photoshop, but nothing comes close to Illustrator, and Photoshop is so perfectly integrated into it these days that I just go ahead and get them both. The software racket will keep working as long as there are OS upgrades. Apple's "free" upgrades cost me enormously.

Shooshie

I'm no fan of Waves and I am no fan of software subscriptions. But the original WUP was severe in that you could not allow it lapse and it was very expensive (exceeding four figures). The revised model at least had a cap of $400 for the most expensive titles, and you only needed to renew it if you needed updates. If you decided not to renew, you didn't lose licenses (unlike Adobe). So I view this "new subscription model" as a return to the "old WUP model."

[mikehalloran]

Makes you wonder when a Silver subscription costs $99 per year, and one could PURCHASE GOLD outright for $99 on sale last year.

A big problem for plug in companies is barriers to entry into their business are fairly low, so stiff competition is inevitable. I wish it were the same for Internet providers.

Oh don't get me started on that one.

The only other company that ALMOST reaches that level of hubris is Adobe.

Worse than Adobe...Yikes!

[Robert Randolph]

Oh no. Is WUP still available? If you continue to use Waves, do you HAVE to do the subscription?

Will Waves ever be satisfied until they've sucked out all my money and spit out my empty, bankrupt carcass? I really try to keep using Waves. I know the plugins and like them. But few companies have courted my dislike so actively or successfully as that one.

Shooshie

It better be optional, otherwise Waves are shooting themselves in the foot with existing customers. They seemed to return to sanity when they capped WUP at $400 per year, and didn't penalize for time lapses in renewals. But that was after they rolled out v1 of WUP, which was such a travesty that it still seems to affect their reputation.

I have to ask: What is sane about capping WUP at $400/year? The lack of penalty for time lapses in renewals was so very lenient of them: "Now that you've invested thousands and thousands of dollars in our software, most of which is about 20 years old, we won't penalize you for not sending us $400 EVERY year; just 'upgrade' years." ("Upgrade," meaning they make it run again when Apple's OS upgrades break it... IF they decide to support your particular DAW that year. Sometimes that means just changing a version number in a bundled support file.)

The only other company that ALMOST reaches that level of hubris is Adobe. Not even Microsoft, of which I'm no fan, though I love Excel and sometimes Word, comes close.

Waves' various schemes to empty your pockets of hard-earned money border on fraud and extortion. They hold your investment hostage and ask you to pay about 25% ransom each year.

And yet I keep finding myself sending money to Waves. Those old plugins are still outstanding in interface, operation and sound. Likewise, every so many years I have to re-purchase Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. I've found things that almost replace Photoshop, but nothing comes close to Illustrator, and Photoshop is so perfectly integrated into it these days that I just go ahead and get them both. The software racket will keep working as long as there are OS upgrades. Apple's "free" upgrades cost me enormously.

Shooshie

Check out "Affinity Designer" for your illustrator needs. Likewise for Affinity Photo.

[billf]

Check out "Affinity Designer" for your illustrator needs. Likewise for Affinity Photo.

Those two apps are excellent!

[Shooshie]

Check out "Affinity Designer" for your illustrator needs. Likewise for Affinity Photo.

I will, but if you don't mind my asking, how many of the commands and routines are similar to Illustrator's? I've been using Illustrator since 1988, and it's kind of engrained in me, like DP. Also like DP, it's deep, with complex operations able to be done simply if you know the trick. It took me many years to learn those (still learning, too), and I just don't want to start over with something that's totally different.

If, however, Sierra breaks my CS6 versions of Photoshop and Illustrator, and if I have to buy them again at full price, as I've had to do so many times, I think it's worth trying something else even if it means taking off a few days and learning the new app.

Shoosh

[waxman]

I'm down to using the JJP vocal and CLA amp for quick fix during tracking... Also I like the ADT plugin. Those all go on special all the time for $39 bucks and last a couple years before you get wupped.

But I own another couple grand worth of waves at least. When they stop working that is it for me. That company is the worst. I've been a waves hater for years. But they sucked me back in with their specials. It started with the free bass plug. Then $29 for this and that. All of a sudden I had a bunch of the plugs and Waves started sending me the $400 buck notice to keep them going. Can you say scum bucket.

I think Slate has become a disruptor with it's affordable subscription service. They will gobble up a big market share if they keep it up. It's plugin product is as good or better then the competition but when coupled with the subscription they become a disruptor. NO UPFRONT COSTS...

Slate could put people like waves out of business. Even UAD could be vulnerable unless they change their pricing structure. UAD's off loading DSP is only an advantage until computers get bigger and faster. I own 95% of the UAD plugin's but they could go the way of ProTools with off loading DSP no longer an advantage. Avid has broken out their systems. Focusrite, Apogee, PreSonus and a host of others are jumping on the A/D band wagon and adding plugins to their systems to penetrate the PT market. One or two more breakthroughs in computer power and it's a new ball game. Waves will have to change their pricing to keep up with the new guys...

[bayswater]

But they sucked me back in with their specials. It started with the free bass plug. Then $29 for this and that. All of a sudden I had a bunch of the plugs and Waves started sending me the $400 buck notice to keep them going.

Same happened to me. I had a few Ren plugins I liked with a WUP of about $50. I managed to get from V4 to V9 with two WUP payments, so that was pretty good. Then I fell for a few "specials" -- plugins for prices like $14, and the WUP went to over $300. Happily, they're all still working with no WUP payments, but If and when they stop working, that's it. Waves is hardly the must-have it might have been a long time ago.