Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

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mhschmieder
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Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by mhschmieder »

Didn't see this coming!

https://www.roland.com/us/products/aerophone_ae-10/

Fading fast so can't explore further. Been off the grid for over a week and will be so again starting tomorrow, for at least another week.

Hopefully others will explore this -- including its price and availability -- in the meantime.

Just a casual glance does not look as ergonomic to me as the Yamaha WX5, and seems more like the Akai in terms of touch and feel. I could be wrong though.

Also, seems they include SuperNatural sounds. The new trend seems to be to have some sounds in controllers such as this and the keytars.
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by Shooshie »

Looks like the price is around $860. That's Siri's conversion of about £660. Of course, street price may be significantly less, if they still do that. A recent keyboard purchase suggests that the old days of street price being half retail are finally over, and the marked price seems to be pretty much what you'll pay these days, so expect it to be between $800 and $900.

The fingering system is laid out like a sax. That's great for sax players; not so much for other instruments. It allows you to customize the fingerings and save them, so you can do your own altissimo fingerings to keep it consistent with your actual instrument. Thus, it can serve as a practice assistant for apartments, trains, or if you choose to practice while attending the opera. [bada-BOOM]

It has a built-in speaker, two in fact, for playing without a sound system. That has the added advantage of giving you vibrations you can feel as you play. More natural, I suppose. Of course, you can turn them off.

The keys are not electrically touch-sensitive like an EWI, but actual moving switches like a WX-5. That is to say, you'll feel like you're playing a wind instrument, for the keys actually move. That was always a deal-breaker for me and the EWI; I never liked the electrical contact touch-sensors. The response was too fast, and it messed with my sax technique. The object of the Aerophone is to be like your sax, not a new instrument that you have to learn. Of course, we all know that the best intentions usually stumble somewhere in practice, so I wouldn't set my expectations too high, though I'm certainly interested. I always wanted a WX-5 that felt like my sax, so that I didn't have to use different fingerings. Of course, I've been playing the WX-5 and its predecessors for 30 years; I'm pretty accustomed to it now, but I'd still love to have something that required no translation from sax fingerings. Something that didn't feel like a double. Maybe this will be the instrument.

The reed doesn't vibrate, of course, but is like the WX-5. It allows you to bite a transducer that sends pitch bend or whatever you program it to send. Not sure the range of programming it accepts, but I think I got a glimpse of it, and maybe it can be programmed for various CC numbers. Breath sensor is similar to all wind synth controllers, and can be adjusted for your blowing preference.

It sends CC#11 (Expression) out of the box. I'm sure you can change that, but at least it'll work with most synths and samplers without having to change anything. That should help some newbies. The biggest departure from previous wind controllers is that it does not have an actual MIDI connection. Akai makes at least one such instrument that connects only via USB. Roland chose to go with that line of thinking, and make this a USB controller. Thus, it can work with iPhones, iPads, laptops, desktops, or potentially other computers, without the necessary intervention of a MIDI interface.

There are many more finer points of adjustment for the technophile wind performer, but I won't describe them here, partly because space prohibits, and mainly because I've only seen the videos that you can also watch. I haven't held one of these yet.

Just listening to the demos, I heard many characteristic playing flaws that require time to master if you want to emulate real instruments, including the seemingly built-in sounds that I'm sure Roland would like for you to use, but which do not stand even close to sounding like what you can produce with the finer sample libraries available to DAW users. Many of the demos sounded embarrassingly close to the ancient Casio electronic sax, which was actually a toy which I bought for my kids, but which DID have actual MIDI output. We'll forgive Roland for that. As long as it gives us connectivity to a DAW, the instrument may well be useful, even grand.

And we can forgive the demo players for not understanding that you must use the whole range of MIDI volume/expression/breath control from 0 to 127, where 100 to 127 are the rare loudest toots, not the standard operating loudness range. An average playing volume should be between 55 and 75, leaving you much room for soft passages, accents, sforzandos, crescendos, diminuendos, and so forth. Dynamically, the loudest ranges should be rarely touched. Learning to play that way is one of the baby-steps of learning to emulate real instruments on a wind controller. That one guy, Alistair Somebody, seemed to grasp that better than any of the other players I heard on other videos, but he's been playing WX instruments for a long time, I gather.

This is truly an exciting development for us wind players. It means that someone gives a damn about our money, and is attempting to cater to our needs in order to get us to part with some of it. Yamaha has done this for well over 30 years, with varying degrees of interest on their part at various times during that history. The ultimate result of their endeavors has been the WX-5, which followed the WX-7 and WX-11, and it is a fairly mature instrument, but not something you can just pick up and play. Roland seems to be trying to make this instrument usable without a lot of extra practice and study. Plug-n-Play, if you will. To the extent that it's customizable for professional level players, that's a great thing, since all other development on wind-controllers seems to have stopped with the WX-5 and the USB EWI. This gives us more choices, more possibilities, and more gadgets to mess around with and store on our shelves.

I look forward to trying one someday. Not now. Too busy with life. Too much going on. But I like to imagine a day when I can kick back and try something new. I think for the average saxophone player and electronic neophyte, this instrument will be a paradigm shift.

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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by David Polich »

Roland certainly seems to be trying out all sorts of new products. I have to give them props.
A few years ago they were in the red and shooting themselves in the foot with new synths that
were poorly conceived and not selling. Roland Europe had closed down, it looked like they might
throw in the towel. Which would have been bad for not only them, but for all electronic musical instrument manufacturers.

In all my years working as a sound designer for Yamaha, Korg, and Dave Smith, the one thing
I have consistently heard is that no one wants to see competitors do badly and go under. It
underscores a bigger problem with the whole market and spells bad news for all the manufacturers.
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by James Steele »

Shooshie wrote:The reed doesn't vibrate, of course, but is like the WX-5. It allows you to bite a transducer that sends pitch bend or whatever you program it to send.
But can you hide maggots under it?

Sorry... I'll never be able to get that story about that student of yours out of my head... EVER!! :vomit: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by Shooshie »

James Steele wrote:
Shooshie wrote:The reed doesn't vibrate, of course, but is like the WX-5. It allows you to bite a transducer that sends pitch bend or whatever you program it to send.
But can you hide maggots under it?

Sorry... I'll never be able to get that story about that student of yours out of my head... EVER!! :vomit: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't worry; on digital wind instruments the reed maggots are virtual. Change the MIDI controller to 128, and they become beautiful butterflies! Or set it to 42 and you get grasshoppers with dark glasses and gig bags. Just beware of hookah-smoking caterpillars who puff smoke in your face and ask indignantly, "Who ARE you?" (and need I warn you about the Jabberwock?)

:unicorn:

We're all just 1's and 0's!

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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by mhschmieder »

Shooshie, thanks so much for writing up such a detailed report.

I only tonight got my home internet back, and now it is at 1996-1998 era speeds as the provider gave up and said "we don't really support Macs" (after they'd taken my money). I may have to join Monkey Man in the wilderness for awhile.

This is sounding hopeful, and maybe it will push Yamaha to come up with an EU-compliant replacement for the canceled WX5. I feared it might be more like that old Casio wind synth from years back (there were three or more models, but even the "high-end" model was a toy).

I am glad to hear that it has physical keys. I agree about the Akai; it messes with technique as there is no latency in the keying of notes and in fact a bit of a hair trigger pre-contact as on an electronic organ. It is also good to know that it has more of a standard reed mechanism vs. the oboe-like Akai.

I'm not so bothered by it being USB-only as I sold my Patchman-upgraded Yamaha VL70m a few years back after the Sample Modeling stuff blew it out of the water.
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by Shooshie »

mhschmieder wrote:Shooshie, thanks so much for writing up such a detailed report.

I only tonight got my home internet back, and now it is at 1996-1998 era speeds as the provider gave up and said "we don't really support Macs" (after they'd taken my money). I may have to join Monkey Man in the wilderness for awhile.

This is sounding hopeful, and maybe it will push Yamaha to come up with an EU-compliant replacement for the canceled WX5. I feared it might be more like that old Casio wind synth from years back (there were three or more models, but even the "high-end" model was a toy).

I am glad to hear that it has physical keys. I agree about the Akai; it messes with technique as there is no latency in the keying of notes and in fact a bit of a hair trigger pre-contact as on an electronic organ. It is also good to know that it has more of a standard reed mechanism vs. the oboe-like Akai.

I'm not so bothered by it being USB-only as I sold my Patchman-upgraded Yamaha VL70m a few years back after the Sample Modeling stuff blew it out of the water.
Yeahboy! That Sample Modeling stuff makes Patchman sound like the 1990s. Oh wait... Patchman WAS the 1990s! :lol:

As for the internet, remember that to a packet switching network, there is no difference between a Mac, a PC, an iPhone, a Linux box... they're all just clients on a network using the same protocols. Tell your internet guys they can't use that excuse. It wasn't valid in 1992, and it's not valid now.

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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by mhschmieder »

I'm pretty sure I am now leaning against trying this (unless I find one in a store, outside California as it is illegal to try anything here that goes in the mouth unless already purchasing).

https://bretpimentel.com/a-few-thoughts ... one-ae-10/

The writer has a lot of biases that aren't helpful, and hasn't tried it, but it's a useful preface to the comments section, where the real content lies (those who own it and also know the other controllers well).

I can't see that it adds any advantages over the WX5, and certainly has a few disadvantages. But in spite of the prevailing opinion in the comments section (a mixed bag nonetheless), I definitely see this as preferable to the EWI controllers, ergonomically and otherwise.

It's a bit unclear how refined the lip control is relative to a WX5, as well as the ergonomic feel vs. the WX5. Apparently the keys are better, so maybe that is reason enough to try one out, but at $800 I'm a bit cautious as I hated the EWI USB from Akai so much that I sold it a week later.
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by Shooshie »

Looks like the perfect instrument for smooth-jazz.
Incidentally, here is a fantastic smooth-jazz tutorial.
He plays sax, but you don't have to be a sax player to benefit
from this guy's unfathomably deep and expert skills at
smoothjazz. First rate presentation skills, to boot.
I mean, he's got the backdrop and everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9bEbyXSG60

That's part one. I'm sure you'll want to listen to all the parts.
You can find the rest.
Imagine what you could do with THOSE skills and THIS instrument!
The potential virtually intimidates me. Can I remember those scales? Those skills?

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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by Shooshie »

Shooshie wrote:Looks like the perfect instrument for smooth-jazz.
Nobody took the bait. Ok. So I'll just post this so you won't think I've flipped out over smooth jazz. Roger Manins, the guy in the linked video, does a classic take on an instructor teaching smooth jazz. The more you know, especially about the sax, the funnier it is. It's a joke, folks.

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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by mhschmieder »

Oh, I didn't know the vid was a joke! I simply thought your comment was a put-down of the product or its intended audience, and was hesitant to admit that my jazz combo (I'm not the bandleader) does a few smooth jazz songs now and then to please our audience. A max of 3 per gig though.
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

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mhschmieder wrote:Oh, I didn't know the vid was a joke! I simply thought your comment was a put-down of the product or its intended audience, and was hesitant to admit that my jazz combo (I;m not the bandleader) does a few smooth jazz songs now and then to please our audience. A max of 3 per gig though.
There's nothing wrong with any kind of well-played music, including smooth jazz, if anyone wants to hear it, and a lot of people do. The video parodies the musical style of Kenny G., but Roger has such a dry wit that it's much more than that. The guy's just funny, and I thought some might like it. In the 2nd video (I think) he mentions Kenny G and Pat Metheny within about 3 minutes of each other, which can't have been coincidental, since the debate between them was still buzzing on the internet when the videos were posted back in about 2010. (I think Metheny took his position on Kenny G public about 2008) Anyway, Mr. G used to insult saxophonists by attributing his success to "practice, practice, practice," which is something most jazz players have done many times more than Mr. G. It's just appropriate that Roger Manins, an accomplished jazz saxophonist, takes apart Kenny's smooth-jazz playing piece by piece and exposes it in a humorous and self-deprecating way, all but hiding the tremendous technique behind his own playing which enables him to deconstruct Mr. G effortlessly and seemingly off-the-cuff.

Anyway, I got a kick out of it, laughing out loud fairly often throughout the 4 parts. I thought some folks here might also get a kick out of it. No put down intended towards the Roland Aerophone, though I thought it really might be good for smooth-jazz.

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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by mhschmieder »

Good story. Thanks for sharing.

I didn't know Pat M had talked about Kenny G -- now I need to hunt that down!

Back when I lived in Boston, I called Pat Metheny once because he was listed in the Cambridge phone directory so I figured "why not", then when he actually picked up the phone, I had to improvise quickly and began inquiring about his rates for guitar lessons. :-)

I had talked to him at shows before, but I was nowhere near in his league at that point, being that I was just starting out. Still not in his league, but I wisely switched from guitar to bass since that time, to avoid comparisons. :-)
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by Prime Mover »

Shooshie wrote: The fingering system is laid out like a sax. That's great for sax players; not so much for other instruments. It allows you to customize the fingerings and save them, so you can do your own altissimo fingerings to keep it consistent with your actual instrument.
I see 3 very nicely placed keys in the right hand for trumpet. Of course the mouthpiece is not brass, but with some practice that should be easy to get around. Unfortunately, my trumpet chops are disgracefully out of practice and my keyboard chops have never been better, so I'll probably pick up a conventional breath controller and just ivory my way through brass/wind mockups!

Speaking of which, my Arturia Keylab has a breath controller port, what's a good (hopefully inexpensive) one out there?
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Re: Roland Aerophone -- the company's first wind controller

Post by mhschmieder »

Eric, if you have the budget, you might try that $600 breath controller device that you can get at best Service with a free Chris Hein Compact Library of your choice.

That price is a post-conversion estimate after subtracting VAT. It might be closer to $700.

I just closed that browser tab at 2am, but to describe it, the mouthpiece is very well made like a real instrument and attaches to a small set-top box similar to the one that Kurzweil and Doepfer made for their advanced Ribbon Controllers (the really long ones that are about as wide as a 49-key keyboard).
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