VST3 for DP9

[Mathematics]

Does anyone have any word as to when DP will support VST3 plugins? I'm doing some voice overs with a VST3 plugin and I would rather use DP for its workflow but I may have to resort to Cubase in order to do it (I would rather stick with the long-time running DAWs) seeing as how the comping build-up is very similar. PT has an AAX version of this plugin but since I deal with mostly MIDI, I would rather stick with MIDI based DAWs. Before I start dishing out more money than I need, I'd like to know if I should wait because that VST3 does have a stand-alone version...kind of like RX.

Honestly, I don't mind having multiple DAWs except for when newer versions come out...that's where you have to choose which one to update!

[James Steele]

Does anyone have any word as to when DP will support VST3 plugins? I'm doing some voice overs with a VST3 plugin and I would rather use DP for its workflow but I may have to resort to Cubase in order to do it (I would rather stick with the long-time running DAWs) seeing as how the comping build-up is very similar. PT has an AAX version of this plugin but since I deal with mostly MIDI, I would rather stick with MIDI based DAWs. Before I start dishing out more money than I need, I'd like to know if I should wait because that VST3 does have a stand-alone version...kind of like RX.

Honestly, I don't mind having multiple DAWs except for when newer versions come out...that's where you have to choose which one to update!

No chance the plug in supports Audio Units? Thanks to Logic, AU is a pretty common format.

[mikehalloran]

Looks like he's on Windows.

VST3 support has never been announced for DP. Among other things, it means that AutoTune will not run in the Win version of DP, either.

There are some old 'rant and argue' threads about this. No reason to start a new one, I would think.

[mhschmieder]

The workaround for now is to host VST3 plug-ins in Vienna Ensemble Pro 6, but that isn't a cheap solution if you don't already own VE Pro 5 (the upgrade isn't too expensive but the product as a direct buy can be, though it's on sale I think for a bit longer).

[Mathematics]

Wait...I do have VEPro 6 but I thought it doesn't "host" VST3 plugins due to programming limitations. I would have to re-read the manual but without reference, I recall it stating something like: "a VST3 hosted on a computer can connect through a VEPro instance"; I could totally be wrong...I hope I am. I don't use VST3 so I'm not entirely sure. I'll look into this again.

[Mathematics]

James,

Yes, there is the AU version but because of the Windows workflow, I would need to run a Mac alongside my project which contains plugins only made for Windows; but yea, using a Mac for the project would solve my whole problem.

In fact, upon writing the post I was thinking to just do the voice over stuff on the Mac and running VEPro to process the Windows plugins externally. I actually have an older Mac but unfortunately, it won't run what I need...it would be easier and cheaper just to buy an additional DAW than to try to buy and integrate a second computer into the process.


Mike,

I've read those too but I had to ask. Oh, for the project, I'm using Vocalign...it's ok. I was trying to avoid advertising for them considering it definitely has some annoying limitations but as long as one is on cue with their accents, it works decently for starting the alignment process of long takes.

[Mathematics]

Regarding VST3 plugins and VEPro6, the current manual makes mention of VST3 plugins on the following pages:

On page 13 of the Quick Start Guide, it states:
“In your sequencer, insert Vienna Ensemble Pro as a VST/VST3/AU/RTAS/AAX/MAS instrument”

On page 22 under Multicore Processing, it states:
“Vienna Ensemble Pro Server will generally perform best when running as few instances as possible. With the VST3 / AAX / MAS Server Interface plug-in, this is possible to achieve by increasing the number of MIDI ports per instance.”

On page 35 under Event Input Plugin, it states:
“This additional plug-in is only useful if you are using Vienna Ensemble PRO 5 as a VST2 or AU Plug-in. You will not need it if you are using VST3, AAX or MAS.”
(I think the reference to PRO 5 is a typo…I believe they meant to say PRO 6)

On pages 103 and 108 regarding Cubase and Sonar Setup, respectively, it talks about setting up instantiating VEPro as a VST3 plugin essentially.

On page 120 in the Glossary, it states:
Vienna Ensemble PRO Plug-in: Connects with the available Vienna Ensemble PRO Servers in a network over LAN, the Server Interface works as AU/VST/VST3/RTAS/AAX/MAS plug-in. Connect, disconnect, decouple and show Vienna Ensemble PRO instances in the Server Interface.

Now, on this last page, here is where I would question whether a VST2 VEPro instance can host a VST3. I am not a developer for software but from my understanding, it doesn’t seem possible because of technological limitations with VST2 for which VST3 overcomes. So, even if VEPro could host a VST3, the plugin interaction with the host would be with serious flaw or be incapable of communicating at all.

Well…I guess I’m going to ask VSL now. I’ll check back here with you guys.

[Mathematics]

Found it! Whew! So, VST3 plugins cannot be hosted in an instance of VEPro, and it was answered by Paul himself as well as DG.

Located in response #15 by Paul on the following page:

https://vsl.co.at/community/search?search=VST3&forum=34
"There is no VST3 plug-in support in VE PRO 6, only VST (2).
Best,
Paul"


Located in response #20 by DG on the aforementioned link:

"You can't load VST3 plugs in VEP. You need to install the VST2 version.
DG"


Well...that clears it up for me and further reading of the other responses on that page confirms there are technical limitations, as well as maintenance concerns, with VST3 plugins being hosted in VEP instances.

[wdegillio]

Would Blue Cat Audio's PatchWorks work for you? It claims to support VST3 on their product page. I have not used it myself, but Rich Hilton (Nile Rogers' studio guy and Chic keyboardist) highly recommends it. And it's $99.

[Mathematics]

I never thought about that. I just checked and it says it can. I'm going to have to give that a try later today. Thanks for that great find! I totally forgot about BlueCat.

I'm wondering what limitations that will have with Vocalign considering the technological differences between VST2 and 3. Well...I'll post what I find.

For the record, even if that actually works, I've decided to just find a Pro Tools license (unless I get an insane price on Cubase, which I missed out on that sold for $250...ugh. I'll find another one).

[terrybritton]

For the record, even if that actually works, I've decided to just find a Pro Tools license (unless I get an insane price on Cubase, which I missed out on that sold for $250...ugh. I'll find another one).

I wouldn't dismiss Cakewalk Sonar either - it has really dedicated itself to VST3 support all around, and it can be had very inexpensively. It also can be "rented" on a month-by-month basis which you are not locked into. And once you become a "renter" the upgrade price magically appears that makes it a real steal of a deal. (Well, at least that is what happened when I was a "renter".)

I primarily use Sonar Platinum for the VST3 instruments and for its tight integration with Melodyne. I'm in DP9 for everything else, though I do use Samplitude (for cleanup and some kinds of editing - love the colorful and useful Comparisonics track views!) and Harrison Mixbus 32C (mixing) on occasion. Cannot do it all in one DAW!

Terry

[Mathematics]

Would Blue Cat Audio's PatchWorks work for you? It claims to support VST3 on their product page. I have not used it myself, but Rich Hilton (Nile Rogers' studio guy and Chic keyboardist) highly recommends it. And it's $99.

So, I tried it out and it actually loads the VST3 plugin but I can only get the track on which the PatchWorks and Vocalign are nested on. Essentially, this exhibits the side chaining limitation.

But this answers my question regarding VST3 within a VST2 host - So, yes, you actually can run a VST3 plugin in a VST2 hosting bridge, in this case, BlueCat's PatchWorks. That is quite amazing but side-chaining doesn't work; or at least, it doesn't work for this setup. By the way, I was using Ableton Live because of simplicity. Besides, for audio warping...it's hard to beat. I won't dismiss the Sonar suggestion...I'll address that in the following post. I just want to put a nail in this one first.

Although it didn't work successfully, I would imagine this would ACTUALLY work well for trying to run a single channel effect or instrument without side-chaining. So...give it a try. This was quite an interesting discovery. Thanks for the great suggestion wdegillio!

[Mathematics]

I wouldn't dismiss Cakewalk Sonar either - it has really dedicated itself to VST3 support all around, and it can be had very inexpensively.

I took a look at Sonar and from the days of 3.5" floppy disks, Cakewalk has come a long way. I really like that DAW a lot. I really love what it can do but at this point, even after evaluating everything, I'm going to have to stick with getting Pro Tools. I've used it before but never owned it because of the lack of MIDI control in older versions and my inability to be creative with it, as I am with Ableton Live's Session/Clip view - there is nothing else like it...except for Sonar apparently. Man...Sonar really HAS come a long way since X1; and the price for Professional is insane for all the stuff you get. I don't know any other DAW that gives as much so little (except for R••••• apparently).

One thing about Sonar though...IF I was to get it, I'd probably get Platinum because of the voice aligning plugin, Vocal Sync. Since I already own Melodyne 4 Studio and using Vocalign, I don't want to duplicate plugins or tools.

Needless to say, the functionality of AudioSuite in Pro Tools is exceptional. For that alone, I'm going to add PT to my warehouse of DAWs. So, I'm looking for a PT11 or higher license. Apparently many people agree that PT has become very stable since version 11. Good times.

Well, thanks for the suggestion Terry! I might actually get a copy a Sonar later because of the audio warping...that actually has some better functionality over Live - I never thought I'd say that!

[wdegillio]

You're welcome, Mathematics! That's the great thing about this board; each one of us uses DP in our own way, and if we can lend a helping hand now and then to a fellow user, so much the better.

I'm a fan of podcasts, and one I've been following for a while now is SonicTalk, on the SonicState website. It is on iTunes, or can be viewed as a video cast on YouTube or their website interactively.
The host is Nick Batt, and they have a rotating list of guests each week, all professionals in music recording and production. Unfortunately, they don't focus on DP specifically, but much of their discussion is quite useful and often entertaining.

All the best!

[terrybritton]

Glad to help! Since you have Melodyne 4 already, you will possibly be quite impressed with the integration Sonar has with it via ARA. It is really impressive to me!




Have fun with all those DAWs!

Terry