Arturia V Collection 5 and Analog Laboratory 2 thoughts

[musicman691]

Rather than pile on the existing threads on the Arturia V Collection 5 (VC5) and Analog Laboratory 2 (AL2) I'm starting one here because amongst it doesn't have anything to directly do with DP the program. This is a collection of my thoughts/experiences so far. Anybody else feel free to chime in.

Well I downloaded the upgraded Analog Laboratory 2 through the Arturia Service Center on my daw Mac. Took well over an hour even on Verizon FIOS. But that's neither here nor there for this bit. Installation went fine and the original Analog Laboratory install was not touched so you can have both together on the same machine at the same time.

I like that one can work with the 5 new instruments as well as the 'upgraded' existing synths. Note that again any existing installs of Arturia product are not touched. Again thankful for that. What I am not thankful for is what Arturia provided in the new instruments.

The B3 emulation leaves a lot to be desired and doesn't begin to touch sound-wise existing B3 emulations whether from NI (Vintage Organs in Kontakt 5 or B4-II) or UVI or anyone else. There's just no heft or guts to the sound. Oh yeah - there's no 25 note bass pedal board that I can find. Granted some rockers might not care about that but don't tell that to Steve Winwood - he still plays those pedals even when there's a bass player in the group.

The Rhodes isn't any better. Certainly not enough to make anyone give up Lounge Lizard or whatever other Rhodes emulation they have. Again no heft to the sound.

The modeled acoustic pianos aren't even worth listening to without a healthy dose of Maalox or Pepto-Bismol. I'm not knocking modeled pianos but these are horrendous.

It's not all bad. The Farfisa emulation is pretty good and can't wait to try the full version to see what it can do outside some of the cheesy patches in AL2.

Now we come to the Synclavier2 - nice! A lot of what I remember of the machine from back in the day decades ago. It can do everything Ciani, Carlos, Zappa and others did on it and more. But it's not all peaches and cream. Apparently Arturia left off the sampling and when I posted about that on their forum one of their sound testers came back and said the Synclavier 2 didn't have sampling but that the 9600 did. Well a quick Google search turned up a couple of links to sites that did mention that indeed the Synclavier 2 had sampling first as an option and then standard and way before the 9600 came out. Waiting to hear back from Arturia on that one. If they can't do sampling in the Synclavier 2 at least give us the option to fly in our own samples done elsewheres in other s/w.

For the existing synths in the V Collection the sound engines have been upgraded and therein lies a huge issue. Existing custom patches done in what are now called 'legacy' synths can not be directly ported over to the 'upgraded' synths and at this point in time there's no conversion utility to do the job. And recreating those patches in the 'upgraded' synths is an exercise best left for when one has the time and patience to try and match tone sounds.

Am I saying to NOT but VC5? No but that depends on one's circumstances. If you don't have existing Arturia stuff and like the sound - give it a shot. They have a demo but it's only good for 20 minutes. If you do have existing Arturia stuff and the portability of old custom patches you may have made doesn't bother you - be my guest. If that portability does come into play - you might want to hold off until things get fixed.

I'm hoping these issues are just due to the initial release of the collection and that a fix is in the works. We all know initial releases tend to have teething pains and maybe this is just that.

[musicman691]

Been spending some more time with the demos of VC5 and some is good, so isn't.

Good - it's stable and doesn't eat a lot of cpu cycles pretty much across the spectrum of plugins.

Not so good - some of the presets for the Farfisa have the hidden noise control turned up. Thankfully it can be turned down. Also no apparent way to bypass the little combo amp and use a di output other than to turn off the power to the combo amp. Ditto for the Leslie in the B3 emulation. You can engage the rotor brake but again no bypass and the ability to use a di output. I know in these two cases there's no di box in the plugin; hopefully Arturia can add one.

My jury is still out on the resizable gui feature. Looked forward to it with the CS80 in particular and like was mentioned by Mark in another thread the lettering looks blurry and at least to me is only somewhat readable in the larger than 100% sizes which makes it inconvenient to say the least. The now legacy CS80 was more readable/easier on the eyes in it's small size than the new version is even in the larger sizes.

Still in love with the Synclavier 2 and it's sound. Puts a smile on my face every time I play it. That doesn't mean I don't want to see the missing sampling/resynthesis feature added though. Definitely a read through the manual is mandatory for using this plugin.

[BobK]

I was hoping to like the Stage 73 and B3, but after auditioning a bunch of presets, I uninstalled both demos. Maybe with some programming effort good sounds can be had, but none of the presets grabbed me.

In comparison, when I demoed the Wurlitzer V (back when it was released), several presets made me want to keep playing, even if it wasn't necessarily startlingly realistic. I simply enjoyed playing it.

I was particularly disappointed with the Stage 73 - it made me wonder "What were they thinking? Did anyone there actually play or listen closely to a good vintage Rhodes?"

I still like the Scarbee Mk 1 with Overloud's Vintage Keyboard FX plugin.

The B3 was OK, but as I'm not much of an organ player, Sound Dust's HamMR is good enough, though as a Kontakt instrument it lacks the full B3 interface (and I don't think it's as versatile sonically as, say, the long lost B4 II from NI).

All this, along with the current lack of support for presets made with earlier versions of the V-Collection plugins, makes version 5 a non-starter for me at this point.

[musicman691]

I was hoping to like the Stage 73 and B3, but after auditioning a bunch of presets, I uninstalled both demos. Maybe with some programming effort good sounds can be had, but none of the presets grabbed me.

In comparison, when I demoed the Wurlitzer V (back when it was released), several presets made me want to keep playing, even if it wasn't necessarily startlingly realistic. I simply enjoyed playing it.

I was particularly disappointed with the Stage 73 - it made me wonder "What were they thinking? Did anyone there actually play or listen closely to a good vintage Rhodes?"

I still like the Scarbee Mk 1 with Overloud's Vintage Keyboard FX plugin.

The B3 was OK, but as I'm not much of an organ player, Sound Dust's HamMR is good enough, though as a Kontakt instrument it lacks the full B3 interface (and I don't think it's as versatile sonically as, say, the long lost B4 II from NI).

All this, along with the current lack of support for presets made with earlier versions of the V-Collection plugins, makes version 5 a non-starter for me at this point.

There's a conversion utility on the way for the presets; Arturia already has one as they used it to convert the old presets over to the new format. Given Arturia's lack of speed in fixing things in the past I'm n ot holding my breath. Luckily we still have use of our old synths.

The more I read and the more I play around with the new synths I like you wonder if Arturia really knows what the original sounded like or worked like. Reading the manuals for the new stuff they say this is an accurate representation of this synth or that synth or whatever but it's not even close. I know developers are oft given to hyperbole to try and sell their stuff but this borders on the insane.

And really there's only two of the new ones I want anyway - the Farfisa and Synclavier2 but even then I'll wait until they do a version 2 of the Synclavier that has the sampling/resynthesis engine the original Synclavier 2 had. In conversations I've had with Arturia people they try and split hairs to justify why they left those features out and I ain't buying that.

[BobK]

Given Arturia's lack of speed in fixing things in the past I'm not holding my breath.

I think it was a matter of years before they fixed a GUI bug in the Wurly.

I know developers are oft given to hyperbole to try and sell their stuff but this borders on the insane.

I don't use synths and VIs a lot (most of my work is on acoustic piano) and when I do, I have lots of alternatives to Arturia. I'm considering not upgrading, and when the V4 collection no longer works, just move on.

I'm getting that sense that with the B3 and Rhodes, maybe Arturia has jumped the shark.

[bayswater]

Given Arturia's lack of speed in fixing things in the past I'm not holding my breath.

I think it was a matter of years before they fixed a GUI bug in the Wurly.

Seems to take them forever to get anything out the door. I was interested in the AudioFuse, but gave up waiting and bought a Focusrite instead over a year ago. AFAIK, the AudioFuse is still not for sale.

[Michael Canavan]

The more I read and the more I play around with the new synths I like you wonder if Arturia really knows what the original sounded like or worked like. Reading the manuals for the new stuff they say this is an accurate representation of this synth or that synth or whatever but it's not even close. I know developers are oft given to hyperbole to try and sell their stuff but this borders on the insane.

To be fair, I have an Xpander sitting right here, and Arturia do Factory presets in the Matrix V emulation of the Matrix 12/Xpander so I can A/B them, and it's startlingly good. Sure if I really pay attention there are differences, but mostly that could be attributed to differences between Xpander and Matrix 12 models even.
I will say that the older emulations can be much harsher sounding on the high end than I've ever heard an analog, could be aliasing etc. dunno? but in my opinion the older emulations are good, fun stuff, but not as accurate as the Oberheims for instance.

[musicman691]

The more I read and the more I play around with the new synths I like you wonder if Arturia really knows what the original sounded like or worked like. Reading the manuals for the new stuff they say this is an accurate representation of this synth or that synth or whatever but it's not even close. I know developers are oft given to hyperbole to try and sell their stuff but this borders on the insane.

To be fair, I have an Xpander sitting right here, and Arturia do Factory presets in the Matrix V emulation of the Matrix 12/Xpander so I can A/B them, and it's startlingly good. Sure if I really pay attention there are differences, but mostly that could be attributed to differences between Xpander and Matrix 12 models even.
I will say that the older emulations can be much harsher sounding on the high end than I've ever heard an analog, could be aliasing etc. dunno? but in my opinion the older emulations are good, fun stuff, but not as accurate as the Oberheims for instance.

When you talk about the Matrix V you're talking about the now 'legacy' version and not the new one right? Supposedly Arturia changed the sound engine in the new versions but they haven't come out and said what they actually changed or areas where it's supposed to be different. Note that I said different and not better.

As to what you said about harshness I remember some time ago someone had put up on oscilloscope the waveforms output by the Moog Modular from Arturia and the hardware one they had and there were some differences. To me it looked like harmonic distortion in the Arturia synth that wasn't in the original waveform.

The Arturia pricing is driving me batty. Say one wants to buy just the Synclavier and not everything else or upgrade their existing V Collection synths. The price is the same for the synth ala carte as it is for the whole VC5 'upgrade'. Ditto for the Farfisa. It seems like Arturia is pushing this out the door that if you want just one you can't have that - you have to buy it all. Fortunately your old now legacy synths will still work just fine.

[David Polich]

Having done 50 presets for the Synclavier V, I can offer my perspective on that synth and the V-Collection 5.

Regarding sampling/re-sampling/re-synthesis for the Synclavier V, that would have been totally pointless, and also required a huge amount of extra development time, because it would have meant turning the synth into essentially a complete DAW. You already have greater capacity to record at a higher resolution, and with more "hard disk storage", in DP!. Re-synthesis is something some other software synths already offer. So my educated guess (I'm not an Arturia spokesperson) is that sampling and re-synthesis will never be added to Synclavier V. That ship has sailed.

Besides, the synth part of the Synclavier was what made it distinct. The sampling part had no signature "sound" of its own. Yes there are people who swore that the Synclavier's 100khz sampling rate and the D-to-A converters (per each individual output) made it the best sampler ever. That's a moot point. We have sampling rates and converters these days that far exceed the Synclavier's specs.

I won't comment on what some say are the "disappointing" new synths. But I will say that several of Arturia's existing synths are stellar, most notably the Oberheims, the Solina V, the reworked Mini V (now with new filters), the Wurlitzer V, and the Vox and Farfisa organs. Spark 2 is also a great drum VI. I use all of these daily in production. I even like the Prophet V, it may not sound identical to an actual Prophet 5, but it does sound very good.

If you own V-Collection 4, you should NOT get rid of it. You can still use your V4 synths alongside the V5 versions. If you are not certain about buying V5, simply download the demos for each of the new V5 synths and then decide which ones you want to get separately or pass on. For many folks, just adding Synclavier V will be enough. At $199 it's still far cheaper than what the original Synclavier sold for ($150,000 and up). If you want to be fully immersed in the Synclavier experience, you can find Synclavier controller keyboards on eBay for as low as $500 (you'd have to retrofit them with MIDI, of course).

[musicman691]

Having done 50 presets for the Synclavier V, I can offer my perspective on that synth and the V-Collection 5.

Regarding sampling/re-sampling/re-synthesis for the Synclavier V, that would have been totally pointless, and also required a huge amount of extra development time, because it would have meant turning the synth into essentially a complete DAW. You already have greater capacity to record at a higher resolution in DP. Re-synthesis is something some other software synths already offer. So my educated guess (I'm not an Arturia spokesperson) is that sampling and re-synthesis will never be added to Synclavier V. That ship has sailed. Besides, the synth part of the Synclavier was what made it distinct. The sampling part had no signature "sound" of its own. Yes there are people who swore that the Synclavier's 100khz sampling rate and the D-to-A converters (per each individual output) made it the best sampler ever. That's a moot point. We have sampling rates and converters these days that exceed the Synlcavier's specs.

I won't comment on what some say are the "disappointing" new synths. But I will say that several of Arturia's existing synths are stellar, most notably the Oberheims, the Solina V, the reworked Mini V (now with new filters), the Wurlitzer V, and the Vox and Farfisa organs. Spark 2 is also a great drum VI. I use all of these daily in production. I even like the Prophet V, it may not sound identical to an actual Prophet 5, but it does sound good.

If you own V-Collection 4, you should NOT get rid of it. You can still use your V4 synths alongside the V5 versions. If you are not certain about buying V5, simply download the demos for each of the new V5 synths and then decide which ones you want to get separately or pass on. For many folks, just adding Synclavier V will be enough. At $199 it's still far cheaper than what the original Synclavier sold for ($150,000 and up). If you want to be fully immersed in the Synclavier experience, you can find Synclavier controller keyboards on eBay for as low as $500 (you'd have to retrofit them with MIDI, of course).

While I respect what you've done for the audio world I have to disagree with what you say about certain things. First off is the sampling/resynthesis feature. Okay so it wouldn't behoove Arturia to do actual sampling in Synclavier2 but we should have beer given the oppurtunity to be able to fly in our own samples that were done elsewheres. Just because other synths do it doesn't mean it can't also be done with the Synclavier2. After all that was a feature of the original and Arturia is pushing not only this but other synths as faithful recreations of old hardware pieces. To leave this out means the Synclavier on offer is NOT a faithful recreation. Arturia themselves has said sampling/resynthesis may be added in a V2 should enough people request it. So it's not a moot point to bring this up. Have you ever really spent quality time with a real Synclavier 2? Try it if you haven't. You won't be so quick to diss the sampling/resynthesis feature.

Spark 2 hasn't been touched except to drop it from the V Collection. And it's not really a drum vi as such if you're talking in the vein of BFD3 or Superior Drummer.

The Farfisa is good but the factory patches leave a lot to be desired, especially those that have the noise/hum control turned up. Does not give a good first impression, especially if one goes by what's in Analog Laboratory 2 where you can't edit that out.

Agreed on keeping the old VC4 synths; I'm using those instead of the reworked ones in the VC5 demo right now. I like the sound better and I can still use my old existing custom patches which you can't at this point in time until Arturia kicks loose with the one they now have which they used to convert over old patches to the new format.