Font problems in El Capitan

[Shooshie]

Has anyone heard about fonts not showing up in the list in El Capitan? So far, I've found about 4, but the ones I remember are Arial and Georgia. I thought Georgia was an Apple font, but apparently it's Microsoft. So is Arial. I wish I could remember the other two; if they're Microsoft, then it points to a Microsoft/Apple rift, and that wouldn't be the first time. Or just a compatibility issue? I don't think it's the latter, since I can go to Font Book, locate the font, option-drag it to the "All" collection, and it reappears in the list without problems.

But it's going to be a matter of finding each of them as I need them, then bringing them back in Font Book. I wonder why that's necessary, and if there is a global method to bring them all back? If anyone has heard anything, I'd appreciate whatever info you feel like writing down or linking to.

Shooshie

[mikehalloran]

It depends how an application is installed.

You've already found the solution. Find the font and reinstall.

Since OS 10.6? perhaps earlier, if there is no font in the system, an application will use the one in the Applications/(app)/Resources folder. If a system fault is installed, it will default to that—this can cause problems if the earlier font file has issues. Word, Encore and Finale are three programs I know where old fonts can cause issues. MakeMusic and MS installers usually deal with it ok when updating but there can be issues especially for long time users who have had many versions over the years. (I've been posting on the Encore support boards how to purge and reinstall fonts to fix issues).

It's similar to the "QuickScribe font not found, will use fonts from Applications Folder" issue in DP 7.24 and earlier. If you uninstall and reinstall, you will get this as the old installer doesn't know how to install the font in Yosemite or El Cap. The fix is to reinstall the fonts—in 7.24, find the font in the Applications/DP 7/Resources folder, right-click and install.

I just checked to find I have two versions of Georgia installed. v.5.1x is active; v.2.05 is turned off. With Arial, I see v.3.05 versions turned off.

Word, like many other apps no longer functions with duplicates enabled. Depending on the version and updater, the installer might not install the later font version if there's an earlier active version installed. The OS has its safeguards against duplicates, too. MS had other font issues over the years. You can probably download the latest versions of the MS fonts—I've been able to in the past.

I'm now going through Font Book.app and cleaning out the junk. Thanks for the heads-up.

A potential issue over the years has been fonts installing in the Users Library. This hasn't been allowed since - what - OS 10.3 or.4? But, if there are some still installed, it can cause weird problems as El Cap may cause those to no longer work.

[Shooshie]

I read some things online, and it appears that there is indeed a problem with Microsoft fonts. Lots of people report MS fonts going missing, and at least one developer discusses a fix, but it involves installing a late version of Java from Oracle, which will then mean that Adobe applications will not work. So, looks like I'm going to have to choose: bring back online each font I want to use when I discover it's gone missing (and risk crashing some apps), or get my fonts all working properly at the expense of Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. That's a no-brainer. So, I'll be putting back fonts as I need them. Illustrator is too valuable to let it go. [edit: the Java connection is suspicious. I don't recommend you take that link seriously.]

Meanwhile, what happens when the old version of Java no longer will work in OS X? Then my Adobe apps will stop working completely. What then?

I guess that's when I out fit an old Mac, possibly this one, with an earlier version of OS X and keep it there. I'm NOT BUYING Illustrator and Photoshop again. I've lost track of how many times I've paid FULL PRICE for these things, but more than a few.* People say there are replacements, but I've never found anything that really and truly replaces these two apps. It's like going from DP to Acid, or something. They do similar things, but not at the same depth. When you've used an app for 30 years, you know it well, and it's no fun trying to learn a new one when you really need to be creating a project. Illustrator is alone in its field, as far as I'm concerned.

So, anyway, that's the Font problem in a nutshell. I still have no idea what's causing it, or whether Apple might fix it, or MS, but the fix for now involves Java.

Shooshie

*I wish someone or something could get Adobe to remedy its greediness and unfriendly upgrade policy. Great products. The best. But making you buy them over and over, at the prices they charge, is outrageously anti-user-friendly. I've made many calls to them over the years to upgrade products. The voice on the other end delightedly tells me that yes, I'm eligible to upgrade, and that the cost will be [full retail], which is their upgrade price. It's usually because I went a few months too long before upgrading, or something like that. I think this is the only company I dislike as much as Waves.

[Shooshie]

I'm now going through Font Book.app and cleaning out the junk. Thanks for the heads-up.

A potential issue over the years has been fonts installing in the Users Library. This hasn't been allowed since - what - OS 10.3 or.4? But, if there are some still installed, it can cause weird problems as El Cap may cause those to no longer work.

I'm due a day or two messing with fonts. I haven't done that in probably 6 years or so, other than finding old ones I've missed. I have many copies of some installed, but I keep them turned off in Font Book. The last time I cleaned up my fonts, I took all of them out of the user folder and put them in the System font folder. I probably need to do that again. Periodically, after upgrading something like MS Word, I find new fonts, and there's no telling where they are installed.

I remember a time when I actively kept my system folder in pristine shape, spending about 10% of my computer time just keeping the computer running at its best. After OS X, I gradually stopped doing that, because first of all, Apple made it hard to do. But the biggest reason I've tapered off doing system work is that OS X has spoiled me. It does everything itself. I just run Disk Utility now and then, or do a clean startup, and it basically takes care of itself. How quickly we lose interest in managing computer systems!

Shooshie

[mikehalloran]

but it involves installing a late version of Java from Oracle, which will then mean that Adobe applications will not work.

No. Whoever wrote that... yikes!

If the application requires the JRT 6 — as Adobe, Chrome, Finale and all 32bit apps that require Java still do, you download and install it from Apple. There is no conflict with Java 8 required for Safari and many other applications. It's that JRE 8 does not support 32bit. Oracle doesn't support Java 6, a version that predates their acquisition of Sun Microsystems.

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1572?locale=en_US

If a later OS decides not to support anything 32bit, then the Java 6 run time will be the least of our worries.

It's a simple font issue. If those fonts are in your Applications/Word/Resources folder, then they should work whether or not they are installed. The exception is if older versions are installed and active.

[Shooshie]

but it involves installing a late version of Java from Oracle, which will then mean that Adobe applications will not work.

No. Whoever wrote that... yikes!

If the application requires the JRT 6 — as Adobe, Chrome, Finale and all 32bit apps that require Java still do, you download and install it from Apple. There is no conflict with Java 8 required for Safari and many other applications. It's that JRE 8 does not support 32bit. Oracle doesn't support Java 6, a version that predates their acquisition of Sun Microsystems.

https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1572?locale=en_US

That's the Java that I have installed. I think it may have been you who told me about it the other day when I couldn't get Illustrator to run. Anyway, it's all working fine now.

So you're saying that the font issue has nothing to do with Java? That would sound more likely to me. What could MS have possibly put in their fonts that has anything whatsoever to do with Java? Anyway, the one developer in that link in my 2nd post apparently thought so. Or maybe he was addressing some other issue that runs concurrently between their app and fonts in El Capitan. Who knows? But I've been replacing those fonts as I find them, and there have been no compatibility issues so far, so I suspect the Java connection is hocus-pocus.

Shooshie

[mikehalloran]

If you use Safari or Firefox, you have Java 8 installed also. There's a Java control panel in System Preferences where you can see if JRE 8 is up to date—and update it if not. The browser verification does not work in Safari or Chrome, only Firefox, and is unnecessary. After updating, you have to close the panel and restart it to see if the update took effect.

Unlike Sun, Oracle will not let Apple bundle Java with the OS. The many posters on the support boards who say how disgusted they are with Apple over this have one thing in common: ignorance on this point. Oracle owns Java and makes the rules.

Hopefully, the break up of Yahoo will soon get rid of that install option for a Yahoo control panel that you have to opt out of when updating JRE 8.