Parents, children, and piano education question...

[FMiguelez]

The reason I ask this here, is because... well, duh! We're all musicians here, and a lot of you have children

Tomorrow is my nieces' 5th birthday. Apparently, she's showing great interest in music, and she's quite talented. She had a small toy piano (tomorrow she'll get a much bigger and nice-looking one with a full keyboard).
She's been playing her piano and singing. She composes her own little songs (so sweet!!!!!)

I want to buy her a children's piano course, or some kind of method. I suppose she'll get private lessons at some point, so it's just for now.

I don't know, some DVD or something interactive that would challenge here and impulse her to learn more while she has fun (the OPPOSITE of my childhood experience). I've spent a while reading reviews in amazon, but I'm not crazy about what I've found so far...

Did any of you inculcate in your children the piano when they were that age?
Do you know of a nice course for children you can personally recommend, that you used with your own children?
What worked (or didn't) for you?

I just don't know if this kind of thing is good or counterproductive... What do you think? (I know nothing about children )

https://www.emediamusic.com/interactive ... b=features

Thank you.

[stubbsonic]

I have a few piano students now, and have taught a few younger ones.

Those Faber "Adventures in Piano" books are ok. They have pieces with some ok teacher accompaniments that can make very simple pieces feel a little more vibey.

If the student struggles with reading notation, that is a little trickier, because it can make practice feel like drudgery. I'd say if the notation reading seems like it is not a big issue then those books are great. They also make some note reader books that might help with that process. All the notes have animal names to make the associations a little more sticky to the memory.

All that said, it's important to read what makes the student inspired. If reading notation is "well-tolerated" they can be a part of their practice session. If not, kids can focus on learning songs in whatever way works best. They have to learn which note is which on the keyboard. Then familiar songs can be written out in letter names, positioning the relative pitch vertically and time horizontally.

One thing I always do with my youngest students is improvisation. I just ask, "Black keys, today? or white keys?". Then we improvise usually with some kind of suggestion of mood or some rhythmic thing. If I hear the student do something a little wild, I just echo it and we take it further! FWIW, I usually sit on the left and try to make nice chords, bass & counter-lines.

I also teach them how to make triads right away! That's fun.

[FMiguelez]

Thank you for your answer, Stubbs!

I have a few piano students now, and have taught a few younger ones.

Those Faber "Adventures in Piano" books are ok. They have pieces with some ok teacher accompaniments that can make very simple pieces feel a little more vibes.

Nice!
Do you use a particular commercial method, or you teach your own? I imagine you use some kind of support material with your students?

If the student struggles with reading notation, that is a little trickier, because it can make practice feel like drudgery. I'd say if the notation reading seems like it is not a big issue then those books are great. They also make some note reader books that might help with that process. All the notes have animal names to make the associations a little more sticky to the memory.

That sounds great.
Of course, uncle Fernando thinks his niece is awesome and special and he doesn't think notation would be an issue (don't mind my bias) ... We'll see about that soon enough. But I'll tell my sister to watch for this, and to be ready to change methods if she feels she's not enjoying it anymore.

All that said, it's important to read what makes the student inspired. If reading notation is "well-tolerated" they can be a part of their practice session. If not, kids can focus on learning songs in whatever way works best. They have to learn which note is which on the keyboard. Then familiar songs can be written out in letter names, positioning the relative pitch vertically and time horizontally.

What matters MOST to me is that this little future artist learns piano and music in a NICE and FUN way. My parents, while being totally well-intentioned, killed my love for the piano by being extra strict and for making me feel it was "an obligation", and it acquired negative connotations that I still struggle with to this day.
That's why I want her to have a totally different and positive experience about music.

One thing I always do with my youngest students is improvisation. I just ask, "Black keys, today? or white keys?". Then we improvise usually with some kind of suggestion of mood or some rhythmic thing. If I hear the student do something a little wild, I just echo it and we take it further! FWIW, I usually sit on the left and try to make nice chords, bass & counter-lines.

I LOVE THAT!!!! And your students must love it too!

Stubbs, you don't live in London by any chance, do you?
I wish you could tutor her!

[Shooshie]

I found that ear-based playing was more successful with my kids at 5 years old. When my daughter was about 8 or 9, she started studying notation, doing scales, and all that. But if I tried that kind of thing on her before then, she just wouldn't do it. She wrote the music for a school opera when she was in 6th grade (11 years old), and she's been a very good musician ever since. Now 28, she has a nice balance of ear and reading, can play Chopin etudes (hard ones, not just the easy ones) and Preludes, Bach's Prelude in E Major adapted from the unaccompanied violin by Rachmaninoff, and lots of other repertoire, but she is equally at home in pop music, bossa nova, samba, and other great stuff. (writes a lot of originals, too) I think it's important to expose them to simple imitative music at a young age, so that they learn that it's about hearing, first.

One pet peeve of mine is that parents usually buy their kids cheap little instruments until they get "good enough" to use a better instrument. While I wouldn't go out and buy a Steinway grand, I think a kid ought to have at least an instrument that can be completely expressive over the full range of the keyboard. That is to say, not a 48 key toy synth, but a real upright piano, and preferably an old Yamaha, reconditioned. Baldwin made some good little uprights that can sometimes be acquired very cheaply. A piano must be in tune, full keyboard, and full expression. If buying a synth/sample piano, it should be a full 88 keys, and it should have sustain and soft pedals at the very least. Synths are nice, but one should be a kid's second instrument, not their primary practice instrument.

You ask about courses, but the ones that were available when my kids were young were cumbersome and wasted a lot of time. There are teachers who have a way with young kids. I'd find one of those people and get them studying. A good teacher knows how much ear to play around with to keep it fun, but then has ways of getting a kid interested in playing songs, which then require learning some fundamentals and reading.

Then again, the individual child has as much to do with it as anything else. Some kids just can't grasp it. A precious few can be told "this is the key of Eb. Here is your tonic, here is your fifth, third, seventh, and fourth... " and can run with that. So, a good teacher has to be flexible to the child's needs and talent.

I don't think I've helped you at all! Well, kids and piano make for a difficult combination. They have to want it and want to work at it.

Those are my opinions, anyway.

Shooshie

[stubbsonic]

Do you use a particular commercial method, or you teach your own? I imagine you use some kind of support material with your students?

What matters MOST to me is that this little future artist learns piano and music in a NICE and FUN way. My parents, while being totally well-intentioned, killed my love for the piano by being extra strict and for making me feel it was "an obligation", and it acquired negative connotations that I still struggle with to this day.
That's why I want her to have a totally different and positive experience about music.

You're an awesome uncle to be thinking along these lines; and you're asking the right questions.

As Shooshie says, each kid is different and develops different cognitive abilities at different ages. Keeping it fun & engaging is the priority. Later, kids learn about investing time now for future gratification.

I'm not as staunch about the hardware requirements. A real piano is great when possible. If not, a keyboard (even one with smaller keys) is ok for younger kids. Velocity is essential. They have fun finding sounds they like. Rhythm reading with drum sounds is pretty fun.

[FMiguelez]

I found that ear-based playing was more successful with my kids at 5 years old. When my daughter was about 8 or 9, she started studying notation, doing scales, and all that. But if I tried that kind of thing on her before then, she just wouldn't do it.

Aha! That's my concern. That's the danger zone that parents can easily cross. I can see how easy it is for some parents to be frustrated by what they perceive as "lack of discipline" in the child. And if they act upon that frustration, even with good intentions, in a negative manner, then everything goes to hell.

I suppose one of the hardest things about being a parent is finding the right balance of encouraging the child to practice and teach them discipline, and letting them do their thing at their own pace and experiment freely AND KEEPING IT FUN AND POSITIVE. It must be tough to find it!

I think it's important to expose them to simple imitative music at a young age, so that they learn that it's about hearing, first.

That's a great point.

Perhaps, the best thing to do will be sending her her present (whatever good method I find), and let her try it and decide on her own what she does with it. If she likes it and uses it, I'll get her a more advanced one next time. If she doesn't, we should observe her and, based on that, try something else (my sister is a child psychologist, so this will be natural and interesting for her).

...I don't think I've helped you at all! [snip]...

Yes you have.
You always bring an interesting perspective to things

As Shooshie says, each kid is different and develops different cognitive abilities at different ages. Keeping it fun & engaging is the priority. Later, kids learn about investing time now for future gratification.

Exactly!
That is the key. I know that literally in my bones.

Thank you both for your comments

[rickorick]

Hi FM I teach a bunch of young kids. I like the Leila Fletcher book from Boston Music. it starts with CDE for the right and ABC for the left. Most of the songs have duet parts but the first 2 don't so I play 1,6,4,5 for CDE and 6,4,1,5 for ABC. I make up my own duets mostly with 1,4,5
and sometimes 6minor. I have 1 9 year old girl who is real patient and we have been using John Thompson's Easiest Piano Course, it's good but gets hard quick it goes right into flats and sharps. The Michael Arron books are good and the the Alfred books are good, I like Dennis Alexander's Level 1 Duet book also. That's enough for a couple years.

[FMiguelez]

Hi FM I teach a bunch of young kids. I like the Leila Fletcher book from Boston Music. it starts with CDE for the right and ABC for the left. Most of the songs have duet parts but the first 2 don't so I play 1,6,4,5 for CDE and 6,4,1,5 for ABC. I make up my own duets mostly with 1,4,5
and sometimes 6minor. I have 1 9 year old girl who is real patient and we have been using John Thompson's Easiest Piano Course, it's good but gets hard quick it goes right into flats and sharps. The Michael Arron books are good and the the Alfred books are good, I like Dennis Alexander's Level 1 Duet book also. That's enough for a couple years.

Hey, Rick.

Thank you very much for all those titles. I'll make sure to check them out! Now I have quite a selection to choose from

[stubbsonic]

A couple of my students have had the Fletcher books. IIRC, they are clearly written and logical.

Whatever books you look at, you can get an idea just from looking at them (and getting in touch with your inner kid) whether they are going to be a reasonable starting point.

Since they are in London, I wonder if you'll need to look for books with crotchets and quavers rather than quarters & eighths.