DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

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Shooshie
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Shooshie »

bayswater wrote:There are other areas where DP's approach -- everything does one and only one thing -- could be relaxed; e.g. having separate windows for duration, pitch, velocity, quantize, humanize, split, invert, etc.

What would you suggest? Tabs, perhaps? That may be very helpful, though I really wonder whether it would change the workflow any. I mean, you hit the command for duration, change it, then hit the command for velocity, and change that... does it really matter if it's in the same window in tabs, or if it's different dialogs? Or do you have something else in mind which might be more attractive in a workflow?
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Michael Canavan
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Michael Canavan »

Shooshie wrote:
Michael Canavan wrote:User interface wise all of this is lot more work in terms of knowing the program, it again also adds the possibility of problems, since a track goes from hosting MIDI in the TO to being only a host for the VI in the V-Rack. I just think the main reason DP doesn't have a single MIDI and instrument track for VI's hinges on the fact that no other DAW has Chunks and V-Racks, nothing even close to those concepts exists outside of DP. I'm not at all saying the space saving concept (if you don't use V-Racks) of a single track for a VI and it's first MIDI channel is a bad idea, there's a reason why the DAWs universally do this, just that it's IMO a quirk of DP that comes from it's one main unique feature, Chunks and V-Racks.
There's no cause-&-effect relationship between the absence of 1-track MIDI/Audio/Instrument and the presence of V-Racks and Chunks. Rather, they are both the result of a deeper philosophy, which is about keeping all tracks, instruments, and MIDI unique and independent, so that it is easier to enable them each to interact with the others in any way that you specify. That's harder to do when Instrument/MIDI/Audio are all the SAME TRACK!

Shoosh
I suppose, but I still think it would be a nightmare to code DP to use a single tracks for MIDI and VSTi's, and that's the main reason we won't see it happen. I'm not sure how it's easier to interact with say MIDI in NI Massive in DP than it is in any other DAW? Massive is not multitimbral. The only consistent disadvantage to a single VSTi track hosting MIDI in other DAWs I've noticed is that for some reason those tracks can't record program change messages from a controller. They can import them though, that's true of Logic and Live at least.

I honorably disagree, I don't think DP is any more consistent in terms of UI than other DAWs, they all have weirdness's. DP's is the dual arrangement editors of the Track and Sequence Editors, Logic's is the Environment mixer VS the Mixer window. Live's absolute GUI monarchical approach...
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Shooshie
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Shooshie »

Michael Canavan wrote: I honorably disagree, I don't think DP is any more consistent in terms of UI than other DAWs, they all have weirdness's. DP's is the dual arrangement editors of the Track and Sequence Editors, Logic's is the Environment mixer VS the Mixer window. Live's absolute GUI monarchical approach...
I honor your disagreement, but I have to add that it surprises me how differently we each see DP. (or other DAWs) As I've said many, many times, there is nothing weird about redundancy between the Tracks Overview window and the Sequence Editor. It's just a little overlap, and neither window would be appropriate for taking on all the tasks of the other. They are used for different purposes, and each is the better for the other's presence. Until you use the Tracks Window for its intended purposes, it may be hard to visualize why it's there. Those of us who evolved with DP from the early days of Performer — before there was even a Tracks window like the one that's there now — understand the rationale for its existence, and even retain our workflows from 20 years ago in which the Tracks window is an essential part of what we do. It's a good thing!

Rather than weirdness that there is redundancy now between the windows, I think that redundancy is a testament to the commitment to letting people have many ways of doing things in DP. And I don't see the relationship between Logic's Environment and Arrange windows being similar in any way except for the part about evolving and changing. People basically don't use the Environment window much anymore, whereas the Tracks window in DP is a focal point in DP workflows.

Shooshie
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Basstrup
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Basstrup »

just adding a mock up of the Market sets.

Image
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Michael Canavan
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Michael Canavan »

Shooshie wrote: Rather than weirdness that there is redundancy now between the windows, I think that redundancy is a testament to the commitment to letting people have many ways of doing things in DP. And I don't see the relationship between Logic's Environment and Arrange windows being similar in any way except for the part about evolving and changing. People basically don't use the Environment window much anymore, whereas the Tracks window in DP is a focal point in DP workflows.
Shooshie
I wouldn't say that, new users who don't know about the power of the Environment don't use it for sure, but that's similar isn't it to the way new users ignore the TO I think. I started off with the TO as well, and I work in electronic music mainly so the TO suits me until I've commited VSTi's to audio. I don't use the Sequence Editor much until then.
With Logic, it's superpower was the Environment, at one point I had a copy of my moog in there so I could edit from the computer, as well as an old school step sequencer with note, velocity and gate etc. It's still there but Apple downplays it in favor of a simplified Garage Band look for all the kids! :brucelee: :smash: :banghead:
It was that dumbing down that had me running back to DP, hidden grouped tracks in the Arrange page would be hidden in the Mixer! :banghead: DP's mixer allows total control, I like that.
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stubbsonic
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by stubbsonic »

I like the marker sets idea, now that I see it. I don't use markers that extensively, but I can see that for certain kinds of projects -- and where markers are used in different ways, it would be very useful.

The ability to show & hide them as groups is clever.
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bayswater
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by bayswater »

Shooshie wrote:
bayswater wrote:There are other areas where DP's approach -- everything does one and only one thing -- could be relaxed; e.g. having separate windows for duration, pitch, velocity, quantize, humanize, split, invert, etc.

What would you suggest? Tabs, perhaps? That may be very helpful, though I really wonder whether it would change the workflow any. I mean, you hit the command for duration, change it, then hit the command for velocity, and change that... does it really matter if it's in the same window in tabs, or if it's different dialogs? Or do you have something else in mind which might be more attractive in a workflow?
I just think it could be done in fewer windows. E.g put duration, quantize and transpose in one window. Pitch, inversion, transpose in another, and so on. I don't expect all of these could be put in one window but I'm sure MOTU could come up with some intelligent combinations. Not tabs -- as you suggest, that doesn't save much clicking.
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Shooshie
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Shooshie »

bayswater wrote:I just think it could be done in fewer windows. E.g put duration, quantize and transpose in one window. Pitch, inversion, transpose in another, and so on. I don't expect all of these could be put in one window but I'm sure MOTU could come up with some intelligent combinations. Not tabs -- as you suggest, that doesn't save much clicking.
I could go for that. Some of those things just kind of go together, such as the ones you mentioned.

In fact, just thinking about that makes me wonder if they could do something like a "Dialog Dock" in which you park any of the dialog windows you want in a dock that could stretch across your screen, or fit to any size rectangle that works with your current screen layout. It could float, like the control panel, so that it follows any "Space" to which you switch, and yet it would follow the preferences for dialog boxes: "move to back after hitting OK," or "close window after hitting OK." This could be quite useful! Dialogs not parked in the Dock would open as usual. Sort of like a Consolidated Dialogs window, though I like the name "Dialog Dock."

Shooshie
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bayswater
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by bayswater »

Shooshie wrote:In fact, just thinking about that makes me wonder if they could do something like a "Dialog Dock" in which you park any of the dialog windows you want in a dock
That would be quite innovative, but I suspect the programmers would have to start fooling around with the basics of the OS window management, and do it for OS X and Windows. Something along the lines of the way the Control Panel works might be workable.
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by musicman691 »

Michael Canavan wrote: I suppose, but I still think it would be a nightmare to code DP to use a single tracks for MIDI and VSTi's, and that's the main reason we won't see it happen. I'm not sure how it's easier to interact with say MIDI in NI Massive in DP than it is in any other DAW? Massive is not multitimbral. The only consistent disadvantage to a single VSTi track hosting MIDI in other DAWs I've noticed is that for some reason those tracks can't record program change messages from a controller. They can import them though, that's true of Logic and Live at least.

I honorably disagree, I don't think DP is any more consistent in terms of UI than other DAWs, they all have weirdness's. DP's is the dual arrangement editors of the Track and Sequence Editors, Logic's is the Environment mixer VS the Mixer window. Live's absolute GUI monarchical approach...
Recording program changes only works if the vi in use exposes it's program change mechanism to the outside world. Most NI stuff doesn't (Kontakt for one), NI Play engine doesn't, Synthmaster doesn't. The only developer that has consistently exposed it's patch change to the outside world is Arturia.

As to whether it's a nightmare to do the coding - you and I don't know that it is or not. And again I'm NOT advocating doing away with they way things are now in DP but adding to it - that's all. Instrument tracks in every other daw do not record the audio - that goes to a separate audio track - they only host the MIDI and the vi.
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by musicman691 »

Something I'd like to add is to be able to add or delete tracks in the mixer. Would be great to be able to add aux tracks for example to work out a better signal flow for instance.

But really rather than see DPX come out half-baked I'd like MOTU to fix the bugs/issues in DP9 first. And that's something I think we all can get behind.
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Tritonemusic »

musicman691 wrote:Something I'd like to add is to be able to add or delete tracks in the mixer.
Big +1 from me. I've been wanting this for years.
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Basstrup
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Basstrup »

You can delete tracks in the mixer. At the bottom of the drop down at the bottom of the track. Adding tracks I personally just use a key shortcut.
Analog is great... We got both WOW and Flutter - what's your bias?
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Tritonemusic »

Basstrup wrote:Adding tracks I personally just use a key shortcut.
I use a Magic Mouse and would love to be able to add a track via right-click submenu.
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by musicman691 »

Basstrup wrote:You can delete tracks in the mixer. At the bottom of the drop down at the bottom of the track. Adding tracks I personally just use a key shortcut.
Would you please tell how to do that in the mixer?
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