DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

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Basstrup
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Basstrup »

Tritonemusic wrote:
I use a Magic Mouse and would love to be able to add a track via right-click submenu.
Maybe you need USB overdrive? more info in my vid https://youtu.be/UnD13PLSve4
musicman691 wrote: Would you please tell how to do that in the mixer?
dropdown menu at bottom of channel

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Michael Canavan
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Michael Canavan »

musicman691 wrote: As to whether it's a nightmare to do the coding - you and I don't know that it is or not. And again I'm NOT advocating doing away with they way things are now in DP but adding to it - that's all. Instrument tracks in every other daw do not record the audio - that goes to a separate audio track - they only host the MIDI and the vi.
Actually I don't think you have to be a coder to figure it would be a nightmare. So you have a track that's both MIDI and instrument like you want. If someone was to add it to a V-Rack it loses it's track automation, must be split into a separate MIDI track as well, and where does that track automation go? What happens the first time someone does this while the sequencer is running?

That's just the first possible hard crash and possibly hugely bug prone problem that MOTU would be facing, there are others. I personally would welcome it if they did add it, but I think it's plain that the way Chunks and V-Racks work makes it difficult to implement compared to Logic Cubase etc. otherwise after 30 years they probably would have done it. :)
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Michael Canavan
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Michael Canavan »

musicman691 wrote: Recording program changes only works if the vi in use exposes it's program change mechanism to the outside world. Most NI stuff doesn't (Kontakt for one), NI Play engine doesn't, Synthmaster doesn't. The only developer that has consistently exposed it's patch change to the outside world is Arturia.

As to whether it's a nightmare to do the coding - you and I don't know that it is or not. And again I'm NOT advocating doing away with they way things are now in DP but adding to it - that's all. Instrument tracks in every other daw do not record the audio - that goes to a separate audio track - they only host the MIDI and the vi.
the way you can record program changes (in Logic and Live anyway) is to not use the MIDI track built into the instrument. Make a regular MIDI track, assign it to the VSTi's channel 1, then record them from your controller. The clincher here is you can then drag that program change message into the VSTi/AU and it works just fine. This is also true of Live and Logics external instrument plug ins, so it's not really the VST/AU that has the issue, it's the implementation of audio and MIDI on the same track that somehow prevents this, and that's where I have no idea why, I only know that it's worked like that since I can recall.
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musicman691

Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by musicman691 »

Michael Canavan wrote:
musicman691 wrote: Recording program changes only works if the vi in use exposes it's program change mechanism to the outside world. Most NI stuff doesn't (Kontakt for one), NI Play engine doesn't, Synthmaster doesn't. The only developer that has consistently exposed it's patch change to the outside world is Arturia.

As to whether it's a nightmare to do the coding - you and I don't know that it is or not. And again I'm NOT advocating doing away with they way things are now in DP but adding to it - that's all. Instrument tracks in every other daw do not record the audio - that goes to a separate audio track - they only host the MIDI and the vi.
the way you can record program changes (in Logic and Live anyway) is to not use the MIDI track built into the instrument. Make a regular MIDI track, assign it to the VSTi's channel 1, then record them from your controller. The clincher here is you can then drag that program change message into the VSTi/AU and it works just fine. This is also true of Live and Logics external instrument plug ins, so it's not really the VST/AU that has the issue, it's the implementation of audio and MIDI on the same track that somehow prevents this, and that's where I have no idea why, I only know that it's worked like that since I can recall.
You missed what I was getting at - it's all fine and dandy if and how a daw program can record program changes but that only matters if the vi being used allows that use. I was pointing out that there is a lot of stuff out there that doesn't expose it's program change mechanism to the outside world.
musicman691

Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by musicman691 »

Michael Canavan wrote:
musicman691 wrote: As to whether it's a nightmare to do the coding - you and I don't know that it is or not. And again I'm NOT advocating doing away with they way things are now in DP but adding to it - that's all. Instrument tracks in every other daw do not record the audio - that goes to a separate audio track - they only host the MIDI and the vi.
Actually I don't think you have to be a coder to figure it would be a nightmare. So you have a track that's both MIDI and instrument like you want. If someone was to add it to a V-Rack it loses it's track automation, must be split into a separate MIDI track as well, and where does that track automation go? What happens the first time someone does this while the sequencer is running?

That's just the first possible hard crash and possibly hugely bug prone problem that MOTU would be facing, there are others. I personally would welcome it if they did add it, but I think it's plain that the way Chunks and V-Racks work makes it difficult to implement compared to Logic Cubase etc. otherwise after 30 years they probably would have done it. :)
If you think you're going to move things to a V-rack then you do things the old fashioned way. And like I said - we don't know that it would be difficult to code for or not and we can't assume one way or the other. I'm saying to keep an open mind about this as I am. Said it before here and I'll say it again in case it got missed the previous times it was said: I am NOT saying you can't work the way things are now just that there are other ways of working that are just as legitimate so why exclude them if it doesn't break the program?
musicman691

Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by musicman691 »

Basstrup wrote:
Tritonemusic wrote:
I use a Magic Mouse and would love to be able to add a track via right-click submenu.
Maybe you need USB overdrive? more info in my vid https://youtu.be/UnD13PLSve4
musicman691 wrote: Would you please tell how to do that in the mixer?
dropdown menu at bottom of channel

Image
Okay - that's for delete but there still should be a way to add tracks as well.
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Robert Randolph
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Robert Randolph »

musicman691 wrote: Okay - that's for delete but there still should be a way to add tracks as well.
What's wrong with command-shift-M/A/S or command-shift-C?

It's way faster than having to right click a menu and select something.
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bayswater
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by bayswater »

Robert Randolph wrote:
musicman691 wrote: Okay - that's for delete but there still should be a way to add tracks as well.
What's wrong with command-shift-M/A/S or command-shift-C?

It's way faster than having to right click a menu and select something.
It doesn't place the new track where you want it. In the TO a track can be added at the position where you right click. Right clicking in the mixer doesn't give any add track option. If you use the key command when the mixer is in front, it will add the track after the currently selected track in the TO. In a larger project that will often be off screen.
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Robert Randolph
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Robert Randolph »

bayswater wrote:
Robert Randolph wrote:
musicman691 wrote: Okay - that's for delete but there still should be a way to add tracks as well.
What's wrong with command-shift-M/A/S or command-shift-C?

It's way faster than having to right click a menu and select something.
It doesn't place the new track where you want it. In the TO a track can be added at the position where you right click. Right clicking in the mixer doesn't give any add track option. If you use the key command when the mixer is in front, it will add the track after the currently selected track in the TO. In a larger project that will often be off screen.
Thank you for the answer, as I was legitimately curious.

My workflow always has the Seq/TO on a screen, so I've not encountered this.
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Shooshie
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Shooshie »

If you work in OS X's Spaces, as I do, it's so fast to switch to any window, because the ones you use are always open. No problem to add a track in the place desired. Switch to the Tracks window, add the track, switch back. Too fast to be a problem.

And for adding tracks, everyone would benefit from spending a few minutes memorizing the key commands. I haven't used menus for adding single tracks in years. Sometimes I even add multiple tracks just by clicking the key command however many times I need. (Unless it's like 20 tracks) The command I use the most is for "add similar track" which is Command-Control-S.

Deleting tracks: Command-Option-Shift-Control-Delete (or something like that). You may have it set differently.

Still, I think the menus ought to be consistent. An option key should add multiples of ANY kind of track, as Basstrup suggested a few posts/pages back.
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Tritonemusic
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Tritonemusic »

Basstrup wrote:
Tritonemusic wrote:
I use a Magic Mouse and would love to be able to add a track via right-click submenu.
Maybe you need USB overdrive? more info in my vid https://youtu.be/UnD13PLSve4
I don't think you understood. I already have my Magic Mouse programmed for right-clicking; I was just saying that I wish I could right-click and see a submenu letting me add a track from the Mixer.
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musicman691

Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by musicman691 »

bayswater wrote:
Robert Randolph wrote:
musicman691 wrote: Okay - that's for delete but there still should be a way to add tracks as well.
What's wrong with command-shift-M/A/S or command-shift-C?

It's way faster than having to right click a menu and select something.
It doesn't place the new track where you want it. In the TO a track can be added at the position where you right click. Right clicking in the mixer doesn't give any add track option. If you use the key command when the mixer is in front, it will add the track after the currently selected track in the TO. In a larger project that will often be off screen.
And let's not forget that not everyone uses the TO - I sure don't. I do most of my work in either the Sequence Editor or the Mixer with the MIDI editor called up when I need it (I don't use the Consolidated Window).

DP is so flexible and there's no reason it can't be more so or at least consistent across the windows. I shouldn't have to switch windows to do something like add or delete tracks for instance.
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bayswater
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by bayswater »

musicman691 wrote: And let's not forget that not everyone uses the TO - I sure don't. I do most of my work in either the Sequence Editor or the Mixer with the MIDI editor called up when I need it
You can do the same in the SE -- use the key commands to add tracks after the selected track in the SE. But I see no reason not to add an "add track" command below the "delete track" command in the drop down menu at the bottom of the channel strips in the mixer. I get around some of these things with a screenset that has a very narrow tall standalone Track Overview window open at the left side of the display with just a few of the more used functions showing. That makes it easy to do some of the basic track stuff that DP wants you do to in that window without cluttering up the overall workspace.

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Basstrup
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Basstrup »

Shooshie wrote:If you work in OS X's Spaces, as I do, it's so fast to switch to any window, because the ones you use are always open. No problem to add a track in the place desired. Switch to the Tracks window, add the track, switch back. Too fast to be a problem.
Agreed OS X's Spaces is amazingly awesome. Question: Have you found a way for DP to remember which spaces to "send" windows to when opening a project? Or do you assign windows to spaces manually?

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Bo
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Michael Canavan
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Re: DPX feature requests (yes I know...)

Post by Michael Canavan »

musicman691 wrote: If you think you're going to move things to a V-rack then you do things the old fashioned way. And like I said - we don't know that it would be difficult to code for or not and we can't assume one way or the other. I'm saying to keep an open mind about this as I am. Said it before here and I'll say it again in case it got missed the previous times it was said: I am NOT saying you can't work the way things are now just that there are other ways of working that are just as legitimate so why exclude them if it doesn't break the program?
Sorry, the point wasn't to make fun of or downplay your proposal, I'm just explaining what I see as fairly obvious reasons why it might be more difficult to implement this in DP, that's all. For instance how does any DAW developer get around human fallibility? I start songs in a single Sequence at times, then move them to V-Racks and multiple Chunks, and visa versa. With all that mobility comes IMO possible issues if a VSTi also contained MIDI data.

If I'm wrong it's just MOTU being stubborn, VSTi's have been around for about 20 years now, and DP has never implemented this, so I'm at this point looking at reasons why DP sticks to separate MIDI and instrument tracks. :)
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