Questions regarding the word "Stem"

zuul-studios · Post by **zuul-studios** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:55 am

I'm old school, barely remembering old-school music-composing and film scoring terminology learned in music college 33+ years ago. I still put pencil to blank manuscript paper when I compose anything serious (like my modest orchestral compositions). (And, to be clear, I am not in the music-creating business. Music and video making is simply a passionate hobby of mine.)

I just saw an ad on Facebook showcasing a program called "Stem Creator" (or something like that). I've seen the word "stem" here and on other music-based web-sites. However, up until now, never bothered to ask the meaning and significance to the world "stem". So, please forgive me for asking this question: What is a "Stem"?? How might knowing the word "stem" improve my music-creation ability?

As a nurse, with 23+ years in the healthcare field, I can give you the definition to the word, "stem-cell"! Somehow I don't think it's the same as the word "stem" as it relates to the modern world of music-making. LOL!

Cheers!

Ted

zuul-studios · Post by **zuul-studios** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:29 am

Found the answer (I think). . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_mixing_and_mastering

cuttime · Post by **cuttime** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:31 am

I've always hated that word, as I've always used the word "submix" which I believe is much more descriptive, but now NI has come up with a DJ mixing format that has further confused the issue beyond redemption IMHO.

https://boilerroom.tv/nativeinstruments ... newsletter

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:08 pm

I call them "submasters," but "submix" is probably a more accurate word. For example, I may have a submaster for each of the following: woodwinds, brass, strings, rhythm, percussion. Mix each submaster down so that all the automation and plugins are bounced to a simple two-track, and you've got a very manageable multi-track mix that still has some creative mixing left in it, which can be done with great speed since you are no longer dealing with dozens of plugins and tons of automation on each instrument or vocal track. Those final submasters, or stems, can be sent to a mastering engineer or further mixed in your own environment.

Shooshie

Gravity Jim · Post by **Gravity Jim** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:33 am

In television, film and increasingly in game audio, they're called "stems." I don't know the origin of the term, but a stem is any audio element that a mixer might want individual control over... Not always a submix, but possibly a single instrument with its reverb routed to another stem. This goes for music, SFX and dialogue. Since everyone else uses that word, I do, too.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:46 pm

Gravity Jim wrote:Since everyone else uses that word, I do, too.

Not everyone. Don't forget; I call them Submasters.
If you use that new-fangled word, Stems, which means exactly the same thing, I may not know what you're talking about!

Shooshie

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:01 pm

They've always been called stems, as long as I can remember anyway, and I've been doing this for 20 years or so. Wikipedia says it comes from the 60's, but I wouldn't know.

The problem is musicians were not engineers before, so they didn't use the term.

The problem with calling them sub mixes or the like is that term usually refers to something else. Like many things in the business it's a little vague, but normally I'd say I have a submix going to the headphones for the drummer. There can be many reasons for to make sub mixes, most of them temporary. I'd print stems to go to mastering and the label. Stems are parts of the mix broken down, exactly like they are in the mix. I might print a submix of the drums and then use that in the mix, but that wouldn't necessarily be the drum stem. The drum stem is the mix with everything but the drums muted.

Stems means something specific, lots of things can be submixes.

zuul-studios · Post by **zuul-studios** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:11 am

LOL! It seems that the word "Stem" means different things to different people. LOL!

The same thing exists in healthcare, unfortunately. I recently created an educational Power-Point presentation on "heart block". (I'll be giving this presentation Wednesday.) The term "heart block" is itself a vague term (like "stem") and requires further definition. One can't just say "heart block". Rather, one needs to clarify by saying "1st degree heart block", or "2nd degree heart block", or (heaven forbid) "3rd degree heart block".

Just in reading the responses here and elsewhere, it seems that in order for effective communication to take place, one needs to clarify "stem". Ain't communication a bitch sometimes?!? LOL!

Gravity Jim · Post by **Gravity Jim** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:40 am

There is no confusion or controversy about the word among people who work in TV, film or games. The confusion seems to exist only in this thread.

zuul-studios · Post by **zuul-studios** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:49 am

Gravity Jim wrote:There is no confusion or controversy about the word among people who work in TV, film or games. The confusion seems to exist only in this thread.

An Aside
I am certain that the people you professionally work with in the music industry hold a common and well-defined understanding to the term, "stem". This is good! Never-the-less, other professional musicians, on this thread, hold differing understandings to this word.

It is not uncommon, in ANY field of study, to hold differing definitions (however slight) to specific words. All that matters is that when a group of individuals collaborate together on ANYTHING, that they communicate well together. That is the bottom line.

Throughout my happy and joyous tenure in healthcare, I've taken mandatory courses on effective communication. Besides that, the topic interests me. This thread does hold differing definitions to the term "stem" (however slight or varied). This is quite evident. You bet your sweet-bottom that if it exists here, it certainly exists elsewhere. LOL!
End Aside

In the meanwhile. . . thank you for your time in sharing your definition(s). I think that I get the gist to the meaning. I don't collaborate with anyone that would require the use of the word, "Stem". So, it doesn't apply to me as I write my happy compositions.

Cheers.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:35 am

Gravity Jim wrote:There is no confusion or controversy about the word among people who work in TV, film or games. The confusion seems to exist only in this thread.

No confusion here. I just enjoy yanking the chain of anyone who thinks using "submaster" for "stem" is a violation of the boys-in-the-club protocol. When I send mixes off to Nashville or NYC, I call them stems like anyone else. But I still call them submaster on my own system because I've done it for decades. No problem with that.

In other words, it amuses me, and I've never met anyone who was actually confused by it. But I've been schooled by countless people who think I shouldn't get my kicks that way. And that's exactly what amuses me! Sorry to offend you. I really don't mean any harm by it. I have my reasons.

What I REALLY think is that "stem" is not a very descriptive word, and a lot of people are confused by it until it is explained. Example: this thread, and many other occasions in which individuals have asked exactly what a stem is. On the other hand, when I've said "submaster" to anyone, novice or expert, they immediately know what I mean. But you can trust that when I'm in the territory of serious engineers who don't like little jokes slowing them down, I use proper lingo just to save time and avoid being yet-again schooled on the finer terminology for bounced submasters within a mix, a.k.a stems.

Shooshie

Gravity Jim · Post by **Gravity Jim** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:36 pm

Uh.... no offense taken.

groove · Post by **groove** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:34 pm

The best definition I ever found is this one from a SOS article:

"So what is stem mixing? Really, it's just submixing, but the point of stem mixing is to print each 'stem' (or groups of related elements: drums, for example) of your mix separately, rather than rolling them all into the main mix, which is what I term 'submixing'. Stem mixing offers several benefits, but the main one is that it greatly facilitates re-purposing! For example, if the label wants a new mix with a little more vocal, you can just restore all the stems and push the vocal stem up a bit, or you can remove the vocal altogether for a TV underscore."

That's why we are asked to deliver the music in stems in film and tv productions, to ease the creation of M&E from a DME and to facilitate the final mix. Clever stems organization and delivery gives a better chance to the sound mixers to better place your music in the mix.

Prime Mover · Post by **Prime Mover** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:26 pm

To me, submix and stem/submaster are pretty similar except for their position in the production chain. A submix is something that a mixing engineer creates and uses for himself to control a group of related instruments: a drum submix, a rhythm guitar submix, etc.

I think a stem and a submaster (great term, never heard it before, but it makes sense) are the same thing but their purpose is to provide an end-of-the-line person some rudimentary control over the mix. Mastering engineers, definitely, but for games, I'm not sure exactly how sophisticated it gets, but I have heard a few cases where melody instruments are faded down (or out) during dialog. TV and film probably does this as well at times, though I haven't come across it personally.

A stem may very well have been a submix during the mixing process, but it's the fact that it's a delivery method for another person or process that makes it different.

As a keyboardist, I send our engineer/producer stems of all my different keyboard patches. These include reverb in them, which my sub mixes usually do not. Some of them may have been submixes in my project, but what I send is stems.

frankf · Post by **frankf** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:17 am

Good writing under dialogue or narration is a critical skill that composers must develop. The mixer should not have to duck a score or stem out of the way. The all important voice should be thought of as another instrument of focus, part of the music so to speak. Stems, which I admit are here to stay, in the hands of an unskilled mixer can ruin the score and compromise the intended support the music gives to the picture. There are good uses for stems but using them to remix a score at the end stage, the film mix, shouldn't be one of them.

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