Falcon = MachFive 4

[MIDI Life Crisis]

From a marketing perspective I always thought it was horrible to have a product with two different name: Mach53 and UVI engine... What say you?

It's like General Motors. Many brands, one actual manufacturer. It's a way to cover many bases, just put a different name on it.

[billf]

What would you find reasonable MOTU should do? If MOTU can do nothing, what should UVI do?

Something about this announcement that isn't sitting quite right absent more information, so I'm not going to bother with Falcon for now. Regardless, MachFive continues to work when I need it, and I also have Komplete, Omnisphere, and more, so I have plenty of options. I can always revisit it later.

Unfortunately unless MOTU or UVI actually communicate further on the subject, there is not much we as users can do. Your choice is to either buy into the Falcon ecosystem, or hold out and see what happens.

[mhschmieder]

It seems better to keep this discussion focused in the MachFive forum where there is already a thread, but it's worth pointing out that the MOTU version of every overlap product is deeper and broader.

UVI was quite honest last year when I asked about such overlap or redundancy, when pondering the ethnic library and others. And many may remember that all of those UVI libraries/products were on huge mark-down sale quite recently.

None of this reflects on UVI's strategy for Falcon, but take note that their recent symphonic library was verified as a re-release of MOTU Symphonic Instrument v1 as opposed to the oft-listed v2 (see Sweetwater's printed catalogues for the past year) that has yet to materialize.

In other words, there is just as much evidence supporting as refuting the rumour that Falcon REPLACES MachFive and that MOTU somehow has lost their licensing arrangement with UVI.

Wasn't MX4 also developed by UVI? I can't remember anymore. That would be weird if UVI is no longer working with MOTU, given MX4's inclusion in DP9 (likely a proactive move related to Alchemy becoming part of Logic Pro X, which many had speculated on as soon as Camel Audio got bought).

[kgdrum]

This was just posted by UVI on KVR


Hi all,

Thanks for your enthusiasm around Falcon, we’re very excited to hear what you create with it!

To MachFive3 owners, we hear you and understand.
We can’t comment just yet but please know that we’re working on something for you.
Expect concrete info early this next week.

Whatever the final form is, we’ll make sure it considers both users who have yet to purchase Falcon and those that already have.

Thanks,
Olivier Tristan
Developer - UVI Team
http://www.uvi.net

[billf]

This was just posted by UVI on KVR


Hi all,

Thanks for your enthusiasm around Falcon, we’re very excited to hear what you create with it!

To MachFive3 owners, we hear you and understand.
We can’t comment just yet but please know that we’re working on something for you.
Expect concrete info early this next week.

Whatever the final form is, we’ll make sure it considers both users who have yet to purchase Falcon and those that already have.

Thanks,
Olivier Tristan
Developer - UVI Team
http://www.uvi.net

Interesting. Thanks for the update.

[carrythebanner]

Wasn't MX4 also developed by UVI?.

MX4 was done internally by MOTU; it wasn't a UVI product.

[Michael Canavan]

This was just posted by UVI on KVR


Hi all,

Thanks for your enthusiasm around Falcon, we’re very excited to hear what you create with it!

To MachFive3 owners, we hear you and understand.
We can’t comment just yet but please know that we’re working on something for you.
Expect concrete info early this next week.

Whatever the final form is, we’ll make sure it considers both users who have yet to purchase Falcon and those that already have.

Thanks,
Olivier Tristan
Developer - UVI Team
http://www.uvi.net

Dammit I knew I should have bet MIDI Life Crisis cash up front on this!

Now the perennial consumer question? Buy now at Best Service since they're the only company that has about $20-25 off the introductory price with a halloween special, or wait and see if UVI actually give a cash discount. My guess is they add more to the $100 voucher they're offering during this introductory price. This would work with people who have already bought Falcon.

[nk_e]

This was just posted by UVI on KVR


Hi all,

Thanks for your enthusiasm around Falcon, we’re very excited to hear what you create with it!

To MachFive3 owners, we hear you and understand.
We can’t comment just yet but please know that we’re working on something for you.
Expect concrete info early this next week.

Whatever the final form is, we’ll make sure it considers both users who have yet to purchase Falcon and those that already have.

Thanks,
Olivier Tristan
Developer - UVI Team
http://www.uvi.net

Thank goodness! I took the plunge, spent most of yesterday reacquainting myself with Mach5 via Eli Krantberg's Groove3 videos.

The two are so close that you can follow the Mach5 video with Falcon. You need to do a bit of GUI translation, but in every way it is "Mach5 plus". There's been some nice changes to the GUI and workflow, but nothing overly radical. Very nice additions to oscillators and effects. I think (but am not sure) that scripting has been beefed up a bit. I'm sure there are more changes, but I have not been able to go deep in just a day.

I forgot how much this sampler encourages exploration ... It's much more approachable than Kontakt for sound design IMHO.

Very happy with it.

[jduesenb]

I'm glad to hear that UVI at least has responded to Mach5 users on KVR, even though they didn't really tell us anything. Both companies have handled this announcement, or transition (if that's what it is) poorly, IMHO. No use speculating further... <<shrug>>

[Michael Canavan]

I'm glad to hear that UVI at least has responded to Mach5 users on KVR, even though they didn't really tell us anything. Both companies have handled this announcement, or transition (if that's what it is) poorly, IMHO. No use speculating further... <<shrug>>

IMO it was probably not a mean spirited but not an amicable split, as most business dealings that come to an end are not amicable, especially if the licenser releases 99% of the code into their new product. Both companies would rather not feed rumors about the other I would bet, bad for business, future endeavors etc. all around.
So it's very possible that this is the best either can do given the circumstances. We as consumers don't have to like it of course.

[mikehalloran]

I'm glad to hear that UVI at least has responded to Mach5 users on KVR, even though they didn't really tell us anything. Both companies have handled this announcement, or transition (if that's what it is) poorly, IMHO. No use speculating further... <<shrug>>

IMO it was probably not a mean spirited but not an amicable split, as most business dealings that come to an end are not amicable, especially if the licenser releases 99% of the code into their new product. Both companies would rather not feed rumors about the other I would bet, bad for business, future endeavors etc. all around.
So it's very possible that this is the best either can do given the circumstances. We as consumers don't have to like it of course.

heres a link to that KVR thread.

The big thread is here: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 1&t=449200

I'll spare you the 45 pages to find out that sfz is the only 3rd party sample format supported. You cannot import such formats as sf2 and EXS24 into Falcon. There are many other features lacking. Now we know conclusively that Falcon does not equal MachFive 4.

This about says it best, IMO:

aMUSEd wrote:
I really want to play with this but need to wait now till I know what the situation is as a recent MachFive owner.

First off, Falcon is not MachFive 4. For many of us, it's not an adequate replacement for MachFive3.2.1. Doesn't matter how many insist that it is, as long as it can't handle the same sample formats, doesn't include Biosphere and many other features, then it isn't. That's ok, actually.

The Falcon synth engine is very nice it that's what you are looking for but the UVI product lacks too many of the features that M53 owners like I use.

...The inability of Falcon to import sf2 and EXS24 files is a deal killer for me. That's ok, others will be able to use this tool.

There have been hints that M5 owners will be pleased with an upcoming announcement. That's nice. If it's an inexpensive cross-grade, I might go for it (or not). If MachFive 4 is on its way, that will be better and I'm in.

BTW, here's the Falcon manual:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/uvi/UVIFC/falcon_manual.pdf

[Michael Canavan]

I'll spare you the 45 pages to find out that sfz is the only 3rd party sample format supported. You cannot import such formats as sf2 and EXS24 into Falcon. There are many other features lacking. Now we know conclusively that Falcon does not equal MachFive 4.

I've read that entire thread Mike, Yes, so far the two big differences between Falcon and Machfive 3 are; it doesn't support importing other sample library formats, which is either a deal killer for you or not, as M53 owners for now at least we can still import into M53 and use in Falcon until an upgrade or update kills M53; and that it does not come with a 40+GB sample library. Those are the only two differences, if you follow the thread third party library developers have stated that their granular etc. patches they sold for Mach Five 3 sound exactly the same in Falcon.


I would be willing to bet you money that MOTU do not release a M54. It's blatantly obvious that UVI and MOTU have parted ways as far as M53 is concerned, and that UVI had rights to 99% of the code bass. The fact that UVI rebranded it and are taking it in a different direction, I don't see how that changes anything, except that it's well worth it to keep M53 rather than selling it, and upgrade when UVI complete their internal negotiations about what kind of upgrade/crossgrade path they will offer. It's IMO absolutely wishful thinking to think that MOTU will now have access to that same code base, and release M54 in competition to Falcon. I've never seen that happen, ever.

[mikehalloran]

Izotope and UVI are two of many companies that license code to others. Sometimes it's obvious; other times it's not.

As has been hinted, an announcement may happen soon. We'll see... perhaps it will be good. Maybe it will be something innocuous like Falcon owners getting to crossgrade to M5. Since "EXS24 any version" qualifies and you can get that in ManStage for $29.95... well, I would hope the announcement is better than that. Whether or not it causes me to open my wallet is another thing.

[Michael Canavan]

Izotope and UVI are two of many companies that license code to others. Sometimes it's obvious; other times it's not.

Of course, but I think in this case it's your basic partnership ending type thing, we're not talking about licensing a single tech here, it's everything except sample content and conversion formats. It's not like they only took the IRCAM license or Xpander filters etc.

As has been hinted, an announcement may happen soon. We'll see... perhaps it will be good. Maybe it will be something innocuous like Falcon owners getting to crossgrade to M5. Since "EXS24 any version" qualifies and you can get that in ManStage for $29.95... well, I would hope the announcement is better than that. Whether or not it causes me to open my wallet is another thing.

It's supposed to happen before the introductory sale ends, so before about the 9th.
I'm with you on hoping for a good deal. I would guess it's going to be small though. Falcon is going for $350 after the intro price, and since they didn't offer a crossgrade right away I'm assuming internally there was resistance to that.

As of today Best Service offers it for roughly $203 with the discount voucher HALLOWEEN20 which goes away Monday. Since it's selling for $229 on sale to everyone my guess is it will either be offered to us MF3 owners at $175-200 or we will be given another voucher on top of the $100 UVI sample library one offered right now. Since some M5 owners have already bought Falcon that would be my guess.

[Michael Canavan]

OK I bit, couldn't wait for the upgrade/crossgrade which is supposed to take pIace in the next couple days. I really like the factory library already in Falcon. I think regardless of the reasons, what is happening with Falcon is going to be a good thing for those of us who like to tweak samples etc.