DP Falling Behind

[ritzybiz]

I have been an almost exclusive user of Digital Performer since Performer v 1, (1988 I think). It has been a wonderful program that has been the DAW for all my arranging and producing projects over the years. I must now make my first negative comment about DP 9.

Audio manipulation has become an important ingredient in today's digital music development, and many other DAWs have very good tools for this. DP has not been updated in this area for many years.
I am now using Studio One 3 and find audio manipulation incredibly easy, fast, and non destructive in real time. I recently quantised a multitrack live drum recording with sensational results. I've changed the key on stereo polyphonic material with success, and dramatically changed tempo with no artifacts. I've heard the comment that Mach Five is the answer in DP, but apart from being a paid Instrument, it is a many step, awkward and only partially successful solution.

Pro Tools, Logic Audio, Reason and others have also made progress in this regard, and I would just love to have these abilities in DP. I am not for a minute suggesting that these other DAWs have everything, they don't, and DP excels in most other areas for me.

With respect for a wonderful tool,

Charlie Hull

[Robert Randolph]

I agree 99%.

I actually bring my drum stems to Studio One specifically for editing. It's way better in nearly every regard when working with multitrack-editing. Simply the ability to just drag a warp marker with the mouse, and have everything stay time-aligned, is a HUGE time-saver.

Not only that, but the timestretching in DP is easily the worst sounding of the major DAWs currently.

Despite this, I still prefer to work in DP for 100+ other reasons. I still wish they'd work on these things in DP though.

p.s. Reason is AWFUL in this area. There is almost no multitrack editing at all, and the timestretching is also not brilliant.

[bayswater]

I can't argue about Protools, but Logic? It has introduced features that are meant to deal with audio manipulation, but it doesn't work any better.

But I agree that DP needs to move on this, and suggestions have been made about incorporating the relevant IRCAM functions into DP, rather than leaving them exclusively in MachFive.

[HCMarkus]

I can't argue about Protools, but Logic? It has introduced features that are meant to deal with audio manipulation, but it doesn't work any better.

But I agree that DP needs to move on this, and suggestions have been made about incorporating the relevant IRCAM functions into DP, rather than leaving them exclusively in MachFive.

Such an addition would strongly motivate me to move from 8.07.

[mikehalloran]

. I've heard the comment that Mach Five is the answer in DP, .... it is a many step, awkward and only partially successful solution.

Nonsense. Using IR CAM stretch/compress/pitch shift is easy in MachFive 3.

...being a paid Instrument,..

True. It would be nice to see that in DP and sooner rather than later. That would be a major value added improvement. Now that many other requests have been addressed, there is going to be a big push for this (along with a truly decent drum editor).

OTOH, the MachFive cross-grade ($295) is only $100 more than IR CAM TS when it's on sale ($195) — $130 if you have to buy Main Stage ($29.99) first to qualify for the cross-grade. The difference is down $50 when IC-TS is not on sale ($249). So you get the functionality plus the rest of MV3 for very little more $. Oh, if you get Main Stage or Logic Pro X, you have an additional 13G of VIs that you can open in MachFive 3. It's not all bad.
I do agree that time stretch-compress in DP pretty much sucks, especially on voice over work.

[James Steele]

Since this really isn't troubleshooting or detailed criticism of a particular feature but a general complaint/concern as to DP's feature set in the marketplace, this isn't appropriate for the Troubleshooting/Criticism forum. It's too general for that. Moving to the OT/Theoretical forum.

[bayswater]

. I've heard the comment that Mach Five is the answer in DP, .... it is a many step, awkward and only partially successful solution.

Nonsense. Using IR CAM stretch/compress/pitch shift is easy in MachFive 3.

Maybe awkward is not the word. And maybe it's technically easy. But it's tedious to do in DP, and hardly a reasonable workflow substitute for real time non destructive processing of a sound file inside DP.

[stubbsonic]

Having the IRCAM processes available in different ways, directly in DP would be much easier than opening a VI. Running it in pitch edits (where appropriate), and especially, using it when grab-stretching a soundbite. And for various tempo manipulations as relates to audio tracks.

If it would add too much cost to the software, I wonder if it could be sold as a plug-in, but then somehow more intimately integrated in the DP if the plug-in is activated. Hmmm.

[Robert Randolph]

. I've heard the comment that Mach Five is the answer in DP, .... it is a many step, awkward and only partially successful solution.

Nonsense. Using IR CAM stretch/compress/pitch shift is easy in MachFive 3.

When you have to stretch/compress/pitch a multitrack recording of a single instrument then it's a huge pain.

This type of workflow is very easy in other softwares, and with generally excellent quality.

[dewdman42]

Oh, if you get Main Stage or Logic Pro X, you have an additional 13G of VIs that you can open in MachFive 3. It's not all bad.

Can you explain this comment a little bit? I have both MainStage and Logic. What would I be able to do with the VI's from those in MachFive somehow that I can't do already?

[mikehalloran]

Oh, if you get Main Stage or Logic Pro X, you have an additional 13G of VIs that you can open in MachFive 3. It's not all bad.

Can you explain this comment a little bit? I have both MainStage and Logic. What would I be able to do with the VI's from those in MachFive somehow that I can't do already?

It only applies to those who own none of the above.

[dewdman42]

I thought you were meaning there is something special I could do with MachFive and those VI's in some way... ok...

[monkey man]

I've said it many times, but I feel that DP desperately needs "elastic audio" to be implemented in a point-and-shoot, no-brainer, self-explanatory, drag-and-drop fashion.

Now, if MOTU could provide this with some sort of typically-MOTU-inspired, slap-one's-forehead-and-wonder-why-nobody's-done-it-before sort of twist, a weakness could be turned into a very attractive strength IMHO.

[mhschmieder]

What is a "warp marker" and why would one want to use it? Is this an EDM term, specific to that genre?

Maybe I should look at S1 and Logic more for audio manipulation; I evaluate an app's MIDI capabilities first as MIDI is a requirement for all but my rock genre stuff -- this is why I bought DP instead of PT a decade or so ago. If it's a "no-go" for MIDI (e.g. Cubase on a Mac) I look no further.

The thing is, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything I can't do in DP and do well (and efficiently), when it comes to audio editing. Maybe I'm just very unsophisticated in my work style and needs.

I bought IRCAM TS when it was on sale, but haven't used it yet. I do have a couple of applications where it will come in handy (no re-tracking is possible as the main musicians are dead). I haven't given much though yet about whether I'm going to be comfortable doing that inside MachFive, but I'm pretty sure it showed up as available in RX5 Advanced.

[Tritonemusic]

What is a "warp marker" and why would one want to use it?

It is part of Pro Tools' Elastic Audio. Google can explain it more efficiently than I can. That is my #1 feature request I'd love to see as part of DP. It is amazing to use, and a bummer that it's not in my favorite DAW. It has nothing to do with EDM or any other genre (it works on all audio). It is a method used for selectively time stretching audio.