The myriad ways in which the App Store sucks

[mhschmieder]

I just and my first-ever experience with the Apple App Store regarding non-free products. Unbelievable! Is this even legal, how they operate?

First off, they don't seem to want you to buy anything, because there is no "BUY" button anywhere; you have to unintuitively click on a drop-list that allows you to "share with friends" in order for the "Buy" button to magically manifest itself.

Then, when you click to Buy, NO CONFIRMATION COMES UP. Furthermore, NO PAGE INDICATING PAYMENT FORM. I had to login for a third time in order to even discover the hidden settings that I didn't know about, and was horrified that they were using a credit card that I hadn't paid yet as I was waiting for the next billing cycle to begin!

Fortunately, as I did this right before midnight, I was able to quickly pay that card -- though it won't show up until tomorrow due to banking rules, so hopefully they have a grace period when they see a pending payment made in good faith.

How can Apple get away with this business practice?

I was lucky I remembered my password, as I probably only set up my Apple ID years ago to be eligible for the Mavericks download, or something like that. I NEVER buy music on-line, as I refuse to buy compressed files and also like liner notes (which still don't exist on-line). So I get awful confused when I have to use an "iTunes Store" for unrelated stuff.

Anyway, I am extremely angry that they FORCE you to register in a non-flexible way that seems to implicitly give them the right to auto-charge a particular card without confirmation, approval, or separate login (e.g. Verified by Visa). It is difficult for me to believe this is legal.

[billf]

because there is no "BUY" button anywhere

There is a Buy button. I'm not sure why you were not able to get it to display. Also, a dialog should come up asking you to confirm that you want to buy the app in question.

[stubbsonic]

Believe me, I get it!!

My list of gripes with the Apple App Store and the iTunes Store is not very long, but it is intense!!

My App Store shows each app at first with a PRICE in the green button. Clicking once on the price changes it to a BUY button. So on my rig, it requires a 2nd press to buy it.

In the iTunes Store, I get a warning window that asks, "You are about to buy xyz, Are you sure?" (or words to that effect). I could dismiss that window permanently, but I use it to allow me to have a second thought.

I should also mention that there have been some times when I've asked Apple for a refund with software I'm disappointed with, and they have usually given it.

As for keeping a credit card on file, that's just part of being in the Apple "economic machine". Google Play, Amazon App Store, they all do it.

If you had read the 738 page agreement you clicked on, you would have known.

[Robert Randolph]

I just and my first-ever experience with the Apple App Store regarding non-free products. Unbelievable! Is this even legal, how they operate?

First off, they don't seem to want you to buy anything, because there is no "BUY" button anywhere; you have to unintuitively click on a drop-list that allows you to "share with friends" in order for the "Buy" button to magically manifest itself.

There is a "Buy" button. You just click the price, then click "buy app".

Then, when you click to Buy, NO CONFIRMATION COMES UP. Furthermore, NO PAGE INDICATING PAYMENT FORM. I had to login for a third time in order to even discover the hidden settings that I didn't know about, and was horrified that they were using a credit card that I hadn't paid yet as I was waiting for the next billing cycle to begin!

You're the person who set up that credit card to be used on that account. They didn't magically take your information out of your wallet and enter it in to their system.

There is also a confirmation window that pops up asking you if you are sure you want to purchase the product... unless you turned that off.

You don't get a confirmation when you buy a big mac at mcdonalds with a credit card. The fact that you're there, you told someone you wanted it, then gave them your credit card info is enough.

Anyway, I am extremely angry that they FORCE you to register in a non-flexible way that seems to implicitly give them the right to auto-charge a particular card without confirmation, approval, or separate login (e.g. Verified by Visa). It is difficult for me to believe this is legal.

They didn't force you to do anything. They didn't "auto-charge" your card. You signed up because you wanted a product. You gave them the credit card you wanted charged when you purchase a product. You clicked a button indicating your desire purchase an item.

There is also a billing agreement that you agreed to when you created your account. You did read that right? And the ToS?

This is all very silly.

[bayswater]

Silly indeed. None of my friends' younger children have trouble finding the buy button, much to their parents' chagrin. It's so easy to use that Apple has introduced the ability to control purchasing by the main account holder in "family" accounts.

I am never asked for confirmation because long ago I signed up for "one click" purchases. If you didn't, you are asked to enter a credit card number. This saves me from entering my name and address, shipping address, and card info over and over. Particularly useful when I'm "purchasing" a dozen free utilities to see which is best. Even so, I am asked to re-enter my password to complete a purchase if one hasn't been made recently.

This is easily turned off by editing one's Apple account profile and removing the card information.

[mhschmieder]

Sorry, I disagree. I am a software engineer and have to have an Apple Developer ID. Apple links everything together, whether you like it or not. But they aren't transparent about it.

There was no price, and no Buy Button. No confirmation, or anything.

I probably had to enter some credit card info against my will, years ago, to qualify for an account so I could get work done at my day job.

I don't have time to go into detail on this right now. The point is that the "business model" that Apple is using is indeed unique and unexpected in the ways they "grandfather" earlier stuff into new stuff.

For instance, there was something completely unrelated to MP3's that required me to log into my "iTunes Store" account, which I never set up. So I took a wild guess and used my Apple Developer ID and related info, and got to the next stage. At no point was there clarity of communication or confirmation of what was going on, any context explained, etc.

It's in line with how most Apple dialogs never explain context when asking for a password, so you're left guessing which password they want as the context is often obfuscated in whatever message you are reading on the screen (and more often than not, the opposite of what it should say, given which password they really need -- i.e. your user account or administrator login vs. some login with a vendor, which really slowed me down in getting Rhapsody Pro from Cakewalk to install and authorize recently).

The closest analog I can think of is when Facebook adds new features and defaults to opt-in. That's a violation of trust, and a BIG PROBLEM for people who rarely use the service and/or only do so when it is an unfortunate requirement for doing business.

How I wish we could still buy Apple software from Sweetwater via a website or phone call!

[bayswater]

[billf]

There was no price, and no Buy Button. No confirmation, or anything.

That is not what I see. The price is on the right side in the Information section, the Buy button is on top in green (the screen size reduced to fit the forum), but it's all there:

[mikehalloran]

I have my preferences set up so that there's no confirmation screen when an app or download is free.

I don't see how you can set it up any other way. Not saying you can't – I just don't see how.

[Robert Randolph]

Sorry, I disagree. I am a software engineer and have to have an Apple Developer ID. Apple links everything together, whether you like it or not. But they aren't transparent about it.

My developer account and my 'home account' are separate. There was no difficulty doing this, they simply use 2 different emails.

I also never had to enter a credit card except for the Apple Developer Program. I just tried to log in to the app store with that account and buy something, and it asked me for my payment information. The card I used to sign up for the Developer Program was not on file.

I was confident attempting to buy an app that I didn't really want because I was certain it would ask for payment information and display a confirmation dialog.

Today I bought an app on my main account (Affinity Designer) and there was 2 separate confirmations. One checking my CV2 number on my card, and a second pop-up asking if I was sure that I wanted to purchase the application.

[mhschmieder]

Well, for privacy reasons, I was trying not to be specific, but since the people who aren't having problems weren't trying to buy the app I bought, and since I haven't had problems with other app purchases, I guess I have to let the unicorn out of the bag and say it was Logic Pro X (which I bought specifically for a few unique MIDI editing capabilities that I can't wait any longer on).

I can only speculate at this point why things behaved the way they did. I'm still angry about it, because I may well end up with a penalty on that card (they don't always show a penalty until the billing cycle ends). I can only guess that there might have been slow performance one day, causing an accidental click-through of a pop-up that I never saw that asked me to pre-authorize purchase of Trump Towers should it go on sale. It's quite a mystery so far.

[billf]

Well, for privacy reasons, I was trying not to be specific, but since the people who aren't having problems weren't trying to buy the app I bought, and since I haven't had problems with other app purchases, I guess I have to let the unicorn out of the bag and say it was Logic Pro X (which I bought specifically for a few unique MIDI editing capabilities that I can't wait any longer on).

I've purchased Logic Pro X, Final Cut X, MainStage. and not had the issues you encountered. Whether it is an Apple title or third party, the App Store behaves the same (as we've all described above).

[mhschmieder]

Like I said, the behavior you described is what I have seen on the other two or three occasions I've needed to use the App Store.

Maybe I didn't make it clear that I spent over half an hour trying to work out the weirdness of that product page before finding the hidden buy button and then having the weirdness that followed (instant buy, no confirmation, etc.).

I did not write the original post in haste; it was the next day that I posted about it here, after doing more research to try to figure out what happened.

I constantly get feedback from testers and users that I can't reproduce myself, but it never occurs to me to challenge them (other than to get more details about configuration, sequence of what was done, etc.) just because it isn't something I'm seeing at my end.

Also, unless someone else did the buy at the same time I did, it must be remembered that the web is ever evolving, and there are plenty of glitches that are short-lived. In fact, I just dealt with one last night with a sample library provider, and helped them work it out. Probably no one else but me had a chance to see it before it was fixed. Maybe also with Apple.

At this point though, I am terrified of using the App Store again until I can resolve exactly what happened and why, regarding the purchase of a few days ago.

[amergin]

Like I said, the behavior you described is what I have seen on the other two or three occasions I've needed to use the App Store.

Maybe I didn't make it clear that I spent over half an hour trying to work out the weirdness of that product page before finding the hidden buy button and then having the weirdness that followed (instant buy, no confirmation, etc.).

I did not write the original post in haste; it was the next day that I posted about it here, after doing more research to try to figure out what happened.

I constantly get feedback from testers and users that I can't reproduce myself, but it never occurs to me to challenge them (other than to get more details about configuration, sequence of what was done, etc.) just because it isn't something I'm seeing at my end.

Also, unless someone else did the buy at the same time I did, it must be remembered that the web is ever evolving, and there are plenty of glitches that are short-lived. In fact, I just dealt with one last night with a sample library provider, and helped them work it out. Probably no one else but me had a chance to see it before it was fixed. Maybe also with Apple.

At this point though, I am terrified of using the App Store again until I can resolve exactly what happened and why, regarding the purchase of a few days ago.

Looks like you might be the only one reading this board who has encountered this. Perhaps check out the Apple forums and see if anyone there has encountered something similiar. I'm an iOS developer and have some serious gripes with Apple products like Mail and iTunes recently but have never had problems like you describe with the App Store. I suppose these are the costs of Apple growing into the behemoth they are.

[billf]

Like I said, the behavior you described is what I have seen on the other two or three occasions I've needed to use the App Store.

Maybe I didn't make it clear that I spent over half an hour trying to work out the weirdness of that product page before finding the hidden buy button and then having the weirdness that followed (instant buy, no confirmation, etc.).

I did not write the original post in haste; it was the next day that I posted about it here, after doing more research to try to figure out what happened.

I constantly get feedback from testers and users that I can't reproduce myself, but it never occurs to me to challenge them (other than to get more details about configuration, sequence of what was done, etc.) just because it isn't something I'm seeing at my end.

Also, unless someone else did the buy at the same time I did, it must be remembered that the web is ever evolving, and there are plenty of glitches that are short-lived. In fact, I just dealt with one last night with a sample library provider, and helped them work it out. Probably no one else but me had a chance to see it before it was fixed. Maybe also with Apple.

At this point though, I am terrified of using the App Store again until I can resolve exactly what happened and why, regarding the purchase of a few days ago.

I doubt anyone is claiming you didn't encounter odd behavior. But your initial post accused Apple of an intentional business practice as opposed to some sort of technical malfunction.

How can Apple get away with this business practice?

So that part does not seem fair. Technical malfunction or bug? Yes.

Intentional practice? What you encountered is not a standard practice by Apple in my experience.