NPR Quiz – can you hear the difference?

[Timeline]

My only comments on this thread are: The difference between 44.1-16 bit and 48k.24 bit is so drastic to me and every other person I ever tested, young and old that heard it and MP3 was never important to me unless sharing across the web for reference to a project I'm working on and such. It indeed sounds pretty good for that IMHO as does the Apple lossless formats but as an audio file and for finalization, I will likely just keep doing what I have been doing which is mixing to 192 or 96k-24 or DSD128 and letting the industry and public listeners catch up to wanting better quality. They will soon I think as the release of Vinyl has prompted many to re-acquire sound that is not bit-afied. For me, I would go back to analog over any format. I guess thats why I still keep two 1200 Ampex multitrack machines and an ATR-102. Wish my house was bigger,

I also have to mention that Neil's Harvest album , which some have dissed here, is decades old and typical sonically for those times. I'm a Neil fan because there is allot of truth to his music, not necessarily because of its sound. I agree, as commented here, that how a song makes you feel cannot be destroyed by a recording format but possibly can add to enhancement to feel closer to the artist live stage.

Mike thanks for posting.

[Gravity Jim]

Here's the order, as set by a billion music fans:

1. Song (including arrangement)
2. Performance (a very close second)
3. Absolutely everything else.

[Phil O]

I also have to mention that Neil's Harvest album , which some have dissed here, is decades old and typical sonically for those times.

I must respectfully disagree. I remember hearing it for the first time (on vinyl) shortly after it came out and thinking it wasn't up to snuff. So bad, in fact, that I still remember it. I stand by my original comment. YMMV.

Phil

[Timeline]

I also have to mention that Neil's Harvest album , which some have dissed here, is decades old and typical sonically for those times.

I must respectfully disagree. I remember hearing it for the first time (on vinyl) shortly after it came out and thinking it wasn't up to snuff. So bad, in fact, that I still remember it. I stand by my original comment. YMMV.

Phil

Hi Phil.
...and, I respectfully accept your opinion as everyone is entitled.

Many disliked music I loved over the years too, sound not withstanding. Most of Neil's stuff was recorded on an Electrodyne board back then. I know this because he used our studio at that time when I was first working called Sunwest in Jollywood. For that session he had a producer named David Briggs. I liked some of his crunch tone but not all of it because when he cranked his twin it was totally ear piercing and harsh too, at least in the room. Always a nice fellow though.

Believe it or not Neil has always been an audio file type. Very interesting artist.

Regards, GB

[Robert Randolph]

Believe it or not Neil has always been an audio file type. Very interesting artist.

Regards, GB

I believe it for sure. I know lots of very mediocre cooks that insist upon having the best ingredients.

[Michael Canavan]

Believe it or not Neil has always been an audio file type. Very interesting artist.

Regards, GB

I believe it for sure. I know lots of very mediocre cooks that insist upon having the best ingredients.

Never been much of a fan of talk about whether you like a musician or band or not etc. on music forums. Sincerely with no emotion, I simply don't care what you or anyone else here doesn't like. In my opinion part of being in to music as a musician is to have a serious filter on your taste, otherwise your style is nonexistent. You have to be able to focus on what you like in music in order to develop your own voice, but part of what that does is make us ridiculously picky about things that other regular people don't even take into account.

Hence music forums nearly every one I've ever visited have these long never ending debates about whether [X] band sucks or are genius's. I mostly don't mention what music I listen to appreciate etc. here because I don't have much of an interest in defending it. I just found it funny that out of a plethora of what I would expect to the crowd here to be garbage pop, we're talking about someone who whether you appreciate what he does or not at least is trying to produce something from the heart etc.

I'm not even that much of a Young fan, I like that record, Rust Never Sleeps, and After the Gold Rush and that's about it. I'm not a huge Rush fan, but I appreciate that they were doing what they want to etc.

[Shooshie]

Believe it or not Neil has always been an audio file type. Very interesting artist.

Regards, GB

I believe it for sure. I know lots of very mediocre cooks that insist upon having the best ingredients.

Never been much of a fan of talk about whether you like a musician or band or not etc. on music forums. Sincerely with no emotion, I simply don't care what you or anyone else here doesn't like. In my opinion part of being in to music as a musician is to have a serious filter on your taste, otherwise your style is nonexistent. You have to be able to focus on what you like in music in order to develop your own voice, but part of what that does is make us ridiculously picky about things that other regular people don't even take into account.

Hence music forums nearly every one I've ever visited have these long never ending debates about whether [X] band sucks or are genius's. I mostly don't mention what music I listen to appreciate etc. here because I don't have much of an interest in defending it. I just found it funny that out of a plethora of what I would expect to the crowd here to be garbage pop, we're talking about someone who whether you appreciate what he does or not at least is trying to produce something from the heart etc.

I'm not even that much of a Young fan, I like that record, Rust Never Sleeps, and After the Gold Rush and that's about it. I'm not a huge Rush fan, but I appreciate that they were doing what they want to etc.

Hear! Hear!
As a musician I know how much work goes into developing one's abilities. Most people getting an education and preparing for a job really cannot imagine what sacrifices musicians make in their lives to do what they do. Especially since most musicians have to do the education, job, AND the 10,000 hours of practice and emergence as a performing artist. Then the hours of work that go into producing a recording can be legion, yet some manage to walk in, record, and walk out, and still produce fine stuff. For a critic or listener to miss the point and label it a failure is, well, debilitating. It's like the old ABC Sports claim that their coverage captured "the thrill of victory; the agony of defeat." I've experienced both, and it bothers me to hear a great concert with multiple standing ovations, cheers and encores, then to read a lukewarm review peppered with gratuitous criticism. Were they even at the same concert?

As for Neil Young's album, I completely missed Neil in the 1960s and 1970s. I was holed up in practice rooms or rehearsal halls putting in my first 10,000 hours, and my non-classical, non-jazz listening was almost non-existent, even though I played in several rock bands. I've made up for it since then by listening to much of the great stuff I missed, but there are artists I still haven't gotten around to. Neil Young is one of them. So, when I criticized the recording quality of the album, in the 30 seconds we had to listen, I was literally describing what stood out while comparing mp3 quality. I was just expressing how poorly a few of the choices were recorded, and was wondering whether that clouded the ability to hear compression artifacts of high-quality mp3's, since the fidelity was already low.

It wasn't like I said "Neil sucks." It was about the recording quality, and how noticeably bad it was, which I hear in a LOT of recordings from that era, along with strings that sounded like the arrangers just mimicked Mantovani, and didn't really bother to make it an organic fit.

But knowing how much work it is doesn't mean I give people a free pass if they complete a recording. The thing is, you can't perfect an album, but you can get it to the 90% level, or thereabouts. Your song may be so good that you can record it in 5 minutes on a cassette tape recorder and it'll still be great. It's probably better to use time and technology to your advantage as much as possible, seeking to create something unique, but polished. Neither way can polish a turd, but an unfinished song may morph into something more substantial over time.

So, when you hear musicians phoning it in, it's disappointing. Others are working their butts off. At least show a little interest. Maybe Harvest is just a great album that could have been recorded on a cassette player. But I can't help noticing what 30 seconds of it sounds like when that's all I'm exposed to. Likewise, I don't have to sit in someone's Tesla Roadster for more than 30 seconds to realize that it's 6 inches deep in garbage, moldy food, and unorganized junk. Finding out that it's a Roadster doesn't change that! But if Neil was happy with his album, it's no business of mine to say otherwise. Just that maybe the low fidelity masked some of the 320 bps mp3 artifacts.

Anyone who finds their way to success in this business has my respect, even if I don't like what they do!

Shooshie

[BKK-OZ]

Ironically (or otherwise), N Young is the driving force behind the Pono player.

Discuss.

[Shooshie]

Ironically (or otherwise), N Young is the driving force behind the Pono player.

Discuss.

Well, there you go. Neil and I fly in completely different radar space. I'd never heard of a Pono Player until this thread, and even then at first I thought someone was misspelling "phono," as in phonograph.

Apparently the universe decided it was time for me to learn ALL about Neil Young, so this thread materialized in my digital space. Must be time to buy "Harvest."

As for Pono, well... I think I've got what I need.

Shoosh

[BKK-OZ]

Well, there you go. Neil and I fly in completely different radar space. I'd never heard of a Pono Player until this thread, and even then at first I thought someone was misspelling "phono," as in phonograph.
Shoosh

You thought I made a spelling eror?
hmph...

Read all about it here: http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... no#p480811

[Michael Canavan]

But I can't help noticing what 30 seconds of it sounds like when that's all I'm exposed to. Likewise, I don't have to sit in someone's Tesla Roadster for more than 30 seconds to realize that it's 6 inches deep in garbage, moldy food, and unorganized junk. Finding out that it's a Roadster doesn't change that! But if Neil was happy with his album, it's no business of mine to say otherwise. Just that maybe the low fidelity masked some of the 320 bps mp3 artifacts.

Anyone who finds their way to success in this business has my respect, even if I don't like what they do!

Word.

Oh and the track we're all talking about was recorded by the symphony composer for Phil Specter..
I doubt Neil had much say in the process there.

.... I have to admit that song is mediocre, Harvest is a mixed record, some awful songs (A Man Needs A Maid), a few great songs, Heart of Gold, Old Man, Words, Alabama, and especially Needle and the Damage Done. Needle is pure brilliance IMO. Ironically it's a live recording.

[Shooshie]

Ironically it's a live recording.

Five minutes with a cassette deck!

I've heard so many legendary performances that moved and wowed me, that were recorded with a cassette deck from something like row 128.

[Michael Canavan]

Ironically it's a live recording.

Five minutes with a cassette deck!

I've heard so many legendary performances that moved and wowed me, that were recorded with a cassette deck from something like row 128.

Exactly, at least to me the song is first, the recording quality is only really an issue when it's something that really stands out. A lot of hardcore punk bands from America circulation early 80's had zero budget, literally, like a day to record and mix the record, because they were all 19 broke and that was all they could do. The energy is there, but if you pick apart the recording it's obvious it's a cheap 8 track deck, live in studio, the singer is playing through an SM58 and they didn't really have drum mics.

Aliasing is another story though, with the 128bit Mp3s you really notice it, and in comparison it's hard to ignore.

[Robert Randolph]

Believe it or not Neil has always been an audio file type. Very interesting artist.

Regards, GB

I believe it for sure. I know lots of very mediocre cooks that insist upon having the best ingredients.

Never been much of a fan of talk about whether you like a musician or band or not etc. on music forums. Sincerely with no emotion, I simply don't care what you or anyone else here doesn't like. In my opinion part of being in to music as a musician is to have a serious filter on your taste, otherwise your style is nonexistent. You have to be able to focus on what you like in music in order to develop your own voice, but part of what that does is make us ridiculously picky about things that other regular people don't even take into account.

Hence music forums nearly every one I've ever visited have these long never ending debates about whether [X] band sucks or are genius's. I mostly don't mention what music I listen to appreciate etc. here because I don't have much of an interest in defending it. I just found it funny that out of a plethora of what I would expect to the crowd here to be garbage pop, we're talking about someone who whether you appreciate what he does or not at least is trying to produce something from the heart etc.

I'm not even that much of a Young fan, I like that record, Rust Never Sleeps, and After the Gold Rush and that's about it. I'm not a huge Rush fan, but I appreciate that they were doing what they want to etc.

I appreciate what you're saying mostly, but I was just making a joke there. Part of it was poking fun at myself in fact.

However, I don't think that it's very productive to dismiss the other recordings as 'garbage pop'. There was not a single song there that I would listen to on my own volition, but I don't think it's accurate to imply that none of the other songs were 'from the heart' (whatever that means). Different production styles, music styles and fashion styles don't take away from what the artist's intent might have been.

[Robert Randolph]

A minor nitpick: of all the compression artifacts that are audible in MP3 encoding, aliasing is not one of them.

Aliasing is a pretty major thing for a lot of algorithms we use in audio production, but when discussing MP3 encoding it's not.