Avid moving Pro Tools 12 to Subscription Model?

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:47 pm

I still get the DAW-MAC email list. When it first started it was really for ALL Mac DAWs (and maybe technically still is), but it's become a defacto Pro Tools list. I decided to take a look at the list digest today and there's a lot of unhappiness about Avid now doing subscription pricing for Pro Tools 12. I think it's $30 per month? I guess they're following in the footsteps of Adobe?

There's general grumbling going on and discussion of leaving for other DAWs or staying pat on the current version as long as possible. One poster even suggested looking at the DAW that shall remain nameless that beings with R. I posted maybe it's time these guys to move to DP, use the MOTools theme, and feel right at home.

Perhaps this is a good opportunity to DP to pick up a little bit of marketshare? I personally dislike the subscription model. I've heard the arguments for it, but I'm not moved. I admit that I just don't like the idea of having to pay monthly to use my software, and if I don't, it ceases to function. This is one of the things that has kept me from seriously considering Adobe Premier.

billf · Post by **billf** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:35 pm

The Adobe model is awful. If you stop paying, the applications stop working and there is no perpetual license option.

I believe with Pro Tools 12 there is a perpetual license option. Regardless, they will probably lose some market share if the comments on the forums are to be believed.

BKK-OZ · Post by **BKK-OZ** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:12 pm

I wouldn't mind the subscription model so much if they gave you the option of stopping at some point, while still retaining the functionality of the version you are on at that time. Even if they had something like a one-off holding fee or some such, so that you could keep using whatever version (without support, of course) you are up to, I would happily pay that so that I could keep going without being perpetually locked in. I can see why companies want to build in steady, amortised revenue streams and I'm cool with that, but this perputual renting model makes me feel like a slave.

I don't think the subscription model will be with us >5 years from now, people hate it too much.

Adobe (greedy company IMO) have really pissed off their customers with their subscription model, myself included. As soon as I find a viable alternative that I can wrap my head around, it is adios After Effects, then there will be the big job of closing off all my AE projects, because all those files will be stranded in a format that I won't be able to read.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:16 pm

Well, I'm not really sure what the actual cost is for the subscription. I was talking to a friend today who uses ProTools, and he was telling me it was $200 per year. I'm not sure how much it really is since I haven't use ProTools in ages.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:36 pm

Hmmm. Looks like it starts at $29.99/mo.

https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__Products?ca ... e=ListView

Robert Randolph · Post by **Robert Randolph** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:15 am

BKK-OZ wrote:I wouldn't mind the subscription model so much if they gave you the option of stopping at some point, while still retaining the functionality of the version you are on at that time.

That is how the Avid subscription works. Wherever you stop, you retain a perpetual license of that version.

If you want to start again though, you need to re-buy the software.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:41 am

If that's true than its not much different than upgrading, unless they ding you for skipping versions.

Robert Randolph · Post by **Robert Randolph** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:28 am

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:If that's true than its not much different than upgrading, unless they ding you for skipping versions.

Like I said, they do.

If you let your subscription lapse, you must re-purchase the software at retail price to start again. You can not 're-activate' a license.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:32 am

Oh, that's bullpucky!

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:50 am

BKK-OZ wrote:I wouldn't mind the subscription model so much if they gave you the option of stopping at some point, while still retaining the functionality of the version you are on at that time. Even if they had something like a one-off holding fee or some such, so that you could keep using whatever version (without support, of course) you are up to, I would happily pay that so that I could keep going without being perpetually locked in.

That's pretty much WUP isn't it?

stubbsonic · Post by **stubbsonic** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:01 am

Yea, I find this subscription concept to be misguided. I think it could work, but the pricing just seems off to me.

With a full-license, there's a reasonable expectation that I can get maybe 3-4 years of supported use -- (depending on the type)-- meaning: updates to fix bugs and accommodate some OS change(s). And I don't mind paying what the developer thinks this is worth. But also that I can keep using a known good version ad nauseam.

However, if I am "renting/subscribing", and if I lose the ability to work off-grid-- or lock in a software title with an OS and keep it working on a frozen, known-good OS boot; then the subscription has to make that workable. If I subscribe for a few years, and end up putting 400-500 into software, then at the end, I'm as empty handed as I was before, that just seems weird-- but the next generation of software buyers won't have those expectations or feelings, I suppose.

Want me to subscribe to PT12 (or any big software)? Charge me $10/mo. Charge me only for months that I use the software. No penalties. Boom. Make it a better deal than it is now.

I find myself in this funny little point in my tech life where I'm seeing myself creating boot volumes with different OS versions. One for Finale 2012 and Toast Titanium, one for older legacy stuff (on my G4), and one for the latest and greatest. And then having to boot in different OSs for these different tasks. Probably more of a function of how increasingly broke I am, and less enticed by the latest-greatest.

billf · Post by **billf** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:10 am

bayswater wrote:
BKK-OZ wrote:I wouldn't mind the subscription model so much if they gave you the option of stopping at some point, while still retaining the functionality of the version you are on at that time. Even if they had something like a one-off holding fee or some such, so that you could keep using whatever version (without support, of course) you are up to, I would happily pay that so that I could keep going without being perpetually locked in.
That's pretty much WUP isn't it?

Yes, WUP is a subscription model for support and updates with a $300 yearly cap. But your licenses are perpetual.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:03 pm

Robert Randolph wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:If that's true than its not much different than upgrading, unless they ding you for skipping versions.
Like I said, they do.

If you let your subscription lapse, you must re-purchase the software at retail price to start again. You can not 're-activate' a license.

Oh my gosh. This may be where Adobe and I part ways, after 30 years. I can't tell you how many times I've bought Illustrator and Photoshop, full retail price. (well, whatever discount I could get from vendors, but that's not much) After so much time, they would not upgrade my old versions. I know I've done that at least 3 times, plus I've bought student versions for both my kids, and a professional version for at least one of my kids. Now they want me paying monthly? All I can say is that I hope CS6 lasts a long time.

Shooshie

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:05 pm

And frankly if CS doesn't last a long time I'll move to some other app. This BS will not stand.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:41 pm

That's strange; I thought we all talked/vented about this already?

Must have been a different forum. At any rate, some of us may from time to time be "forced" to use PT (or to pretend we're using it), so there might be SOME benefit to the "free" version with its one-project-at-a-time model, but I do hope I don't end up becoming one of those people as more likely I'd fall into the "sucker" category of needing less limited access.

So, on that note, it bears mentioning that the Adobe model is much worse than was posted above: they also hold your data captive, so you can't even convert it or use it in other apps or older versions (including perpetual licenses that you own, from what I understand, but which are less up-to-date).

It was proudly proclaimed that the stocks went way up after this move. Investors tend to be short term these days though, and not necessarily savvy when it comes to domain specific concerns, so it would be unlikely that this "improvement" in perception of financial health reflects any real sense of the impact the licensing-only model will have on the majority of users (who rarely can justify the expense as could someone who needs and uses the product day ina nd day out as their main livelihood).

I think the same happened to Avid stock after the announcement, but I may be conflating two situations.

The segment of the market that we see is strongly rejecting the subscription model. I can't say much beyond that, unfortunately, but I do think this will end up being a passing phase for both Adobe and Avid. At least I hope so.

MOTUnation.com