FYI: Article describing how AVB fits into Internet of Things

[HCMarkus]

Monkey, it is my understanding that if you install an AVB-compliant Ethernet PCIe card, you CAN run AVB into your Mac.

The new MOTU boxes interface via Thunderbolt, USB and AVB. Last time I checked, the latency figures for a direct-AVB connection were worse than USB.

MOTU now offers 64/64 channel computer i/o via USB

[monkey man]

Hey Sir Markus. Thank you for that, mate.

Turns out the 64/64 statement on the MOTU site is misleading. My guess is that, whilst the Mac sees all those ins and outs, only 32/32 are in fact available at any given time. This was recently upped from 24/24 through some slick programming on the part of the Gods of MOTU.

The AVB-compliant Ethernet PCIe latency specs were horrendous last time I checked, which is ever less often now as I grow weary of this wait. I'm talking in the order of half-a-second horrendous!

Again, thank you for at least attempting to help me drag myself out of this AVB-upgrade depression. I'll of course continue to monitor the BeerGuts thread in anticipoopation of something from MOTU...

[monkey man]

Crumpets!

All the interfaces support 64/64 channels in/out over USB with the latest 1.2.0 firmware.

This is only at 1x rates, but hey, assuming these are simultaneous streams and not just available channels, they've done it. USB2. Scary.

... I still haven't seen any comment about direct hardware playthrough for DP. Anything there?

We're actively thinking about ways of adding a similar feature to DP for the Avb line. The architecture is so different compared to the CueMix FX boxes, though, that it's a little tricky and takes some doing.

Herein lies the only remaining problem, Sir Markus, apart from my fear of switching from the wonderful PCI424 AudioWire system to USB2. If they can sort this one out, everything changes for me. Thanks for bringing it up; as I suggested, I've become somewhat jaded after 9 months of following the saga.

[mhschmieder]

Well, even though my company is one of the main drivers behind AVB, I don't yet have any need for it in my personal at-home studio work. If I was running a pro audio/video studio though, I'd definitely give it strong consideration going forward. Less cable, less proprietaries to worry about, and eminent scalability and flexibility.

MADI has been around for eons but didn't get its second life until a decade or so ago, when people got frustrated by the limits of ADAT (before S-MUX partially took care of its lack of scalability). Aside from the license-based Dante, the MADI use cases are prime candidates for conversion to AVB (which, of course, has been re-branded, but few have adopted the new terminology yet).

As I mentioned a year or so ago, the car industry is driving this more than anyone, which is why it will succeed, along with Ethernet being one of the major transport layer bases and being "for free" due to the telecomm infrastructure and support.

Other than just the need to integrate, the desire for openness and long-term compatibility, etc., the audio industry is in good part motivated by AVB and related standards because it off-loads VERY expensive research and infrastructure onto industries that have a LOT more money, bigger and longer-term customer bases, etc. Sort of like how Yamaha and others began to use stock CPU's in their keyboard DAW's, even though it was overkill in some cases, as the scale of cost was favorable compared to less R&D time required.

Interestingly, in the last few months I've begun to see unexpected new partnerships that came about because of AVB and otherwise wouldn't have. Aside from the business end of this, it is good news because it means that quality audio providers, without much effort, have some synergy and cross-compatibility now with more typical consumer markets that otherwise would suffer continuing dumbing-down of quality.

[HCMarkus]

On point Mark. Like you, I don't see my studio's scale as requiring AVB, but it looks like a big win for the touring scene, and the leverage provided by general industry's adaptation of the protocol bodes well for AVB's future. Thanks for sharing.

PS: How many years until Roland releases the first AVB accordion?

[monkey man]

Sorry it's still a little OT, Sir M, but any config larger than two MOTU interfaces requires that the protocol, and hence, a "switch box" such as the one MOTU offers, be employed. That encompasses studio sizes all they way down to mine (small, home, but a fair amount of MIDI) and in fact to half mine's size.

In most cases, anything larger than 32 I/O will have no choice but to go ABV as far as MOTU gear is concerned.

[bayswater]

In most cases, anything larger than 32 I/O will have no choice but to go ABV as far as MOTU gear is concerned.

Are you talking about the connections between devices or the connection between the devices and the computer? What about simply connecting multiple USB interfaces to a computer?

[billf]

In most cases, anything larger than 32 I/O will have no choice but to go ABV as far as MOTU gear is concerned.

I'm not following your logic on this one Monkster. Can you expand on it a bit?

[mhschmieder]

He might be onto something, but I didn't know monkeys have enough digits to count that high?

I have yet to go above 24 channels when it comes to live recording (vs. overdubs or MIDI projects), so I haven't fully contemplated where the cutoff would be between simple USB/FW plus ADAT systems and larger systems.

Like I said though, if starting from scratch, AVB and Ethernet have advantages even for smaller studios and homes, as they'll be around a lot longer than other cable types and protocols and connect with more tools and aspects of what people might do with their recordings at every stage of working with them.

I think this is likely why MOTU broke from the pack as the first vendor to put it in consumer devices vs. saving it for their couple of high-end devices only, or even the prosumer level stuff.

Funny about Thunderbolt, but I never needed to go that route so stopped paying attention. It really did have a LOT of industry momentum behind the scenes and in product planning sessions at many major companies -- most of which I couldn't talk about publicly -- but my understanding is that Apple has now pulled the plug? (no pun intended).

Of course there is often confusion over cable type, protocol, transport layer, etc. As an IEEE member, I have to keep all that stuff straight, but in the common vernacular, it will remain muddled, and so people will tend to think incorrectly that there are mutually exclusive options (Thunderbolt being one of them) when that is not the case.

[bayswater]

but my understanding is that Apple has now pulled the plug

?? That didn't last long. Not even long enough for me to buy obsolete peripherals.

[HCMarkus]

Unless MH has some inside information, I don''t think the move to USB C as the sole connector (other than a headphone jack) on the new Macbook necessarily indicates abandonment of Thunderbolt. In the Macbook's case, it is USB C's compact form factor that made the port appealing to Apple. It is very likely TB will continue to be offered on new versions of the Mac Pro for the foreseeable future.

[mhschmieder]

No; I never have inside information on USB related stuff. I was just stating that someone had said TB is dead. But they said that about FW as well, a few years back. I'm just not interested enough in TB personally to pay more attention to it at this point; I just reaffirmed ADAT as my primary expansion technology when I went to the Audient 8-channel I/O to augment my RME unit (which I use in USB vs. FW mode).

PreSonus announced an AVB control surface at MusikMesse today: Presonus StudioLive-CS18AI. I don't consider it OK to cut/paste from other forums, and what was posted at GS was probably cut/paste from a primary source anyway. I don't know how well PreSonus control surfaces play with DP and/or MOTU interfaces. Does anyone have experience with that?

[mhschmieder]

MusikMesse: Universal Audio announces next-gen Apollo thunderbolt 2 audio interfaces for 2015

We just hired a guy who was one of the main programmers for gen1 of the Apollo interfaces, so maybe I could drill him on where he thinks Thunderbolt is headed. Universal Audio certainly seems committed to it!

[mikehalloran]

Intel hold the keys to Thunderbolt. There are plenty of rumors that chips adhering to the original spec may be released this year. Essentially it's the TB 2 spec over optical as was originally intended.

Other rumors are that Intel will be pushing PC makers to be more TB compliant but Microsoft hasn't really gotten on board with that yet. I suppose they're waiting to see how well USB C/3.1 works out. Since Windows has big problems with usb 3 and 2 on the same machine, this could be interesting (if I cared).

We'll see.

[mhschmieder]

One person already asked about DAW compatibility, and PreSonus responded that other DAW's (though they didn't say which ones) will be supported by the new StudioLive controller in software updates (initially it's mostly for StudioOne). They mention StudioOne 3, and I think mine is v2, so I'm guessing there'll be a software announcement this week as well.