Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMix

The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other off topic discussion.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other matters outside deemed outside the scope of helping users make optimal use of MOTU hardware and software. Posts in other forums may be moved here at the moderators discretion. No politics or religion!!
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Shooshie »

Phil O wrote:Ok, so here's the problem as I see it. The XLR outputs on your MOTU unit are most likely differential (i.e., balanced), so each out has a GND, +, and -, for a total of 5 connections for stereo (GND common to both):

1) GND
2) + Left
3) - Left
4) + Right
5) - Right

The TRS input on the HA8000 has 2 single ended (i.e., unbalanced) signals, for a total of 3 connections:

1) GND
2) Left
3) Right

To connect to the HA8000 you need to short the (-) on each output to GND, making a total of three connections:
1) GND/- Left/- Right
2) + Left
3) + Right

I don't know if the 2 female-to-TRS mini is configured this way or not. If it is, you could cut off the mini and solder on a 1/4 inch TRS, but you'd need to check the internal connections first. Unfortunately, your best option is to make the cables yourself or have them made for you. Markertek will custom build for you, but I don't know what they charge.

Note: Those numbers are NOT pin numbers.

Good luck with this Shoosh. I understand your frustration.
Phil
I use the cable tester mentioned in my previous post to manage all this. It all works out very well, but before I got that tester (about 2.5 years ago) I was in the dark. I used a continuity meter tester, then, but it was really hard to do, and didn't give the kind of information that the big tester gives. The tester has a matrix of lights that give all the pin info, showing what pins connect to which ring, tip, or sleeve. I don't know how I managed all those years without it.

Here are two cable/adapter combos that work for getting headphones from XLR Out ports to a headphone amp:
Image

Shooshie
Last edited by Shooshie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by mikehalloran »

Shooshie wrote:Speaking of adapters and cables, I would be lost without this device:

Click Picture to go to page at Amazon.com:
Image


There are probably better ones out there; I wouldn't know, but this one serves my purposes. It's not the most intuitive tester I've ever used, but considering the extent of what it does, I don't think that's a valid concern.
$40? Nice.

Where were those things 40 years ago when I had to make most of my cables?

I don't really have the need anymore but may have to get one anyway. There are four large boxes of cables I've been meaning to sort for years... someday...

Thanks for the heads up!
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Shooshie »

In regard to Phil's post about pins, etc., there's one more little tidbit of info that might be helpful to some who are unsure of what goes where. I follow the same rules one follows when boating, with buoys, boats, and ships in a ship channel heeding rules for dodging each other: "Red, Right, Returning."

Except in cables and adapters, it's "Red, Ring, Right, Returning." The ring on a stereo plug corresponds to the right channel, usually coded red if colors are used. In a mixing board send patchbay, the ring will correspond to the return channel.

That means the opposite is "Black (or White), Tip, Left, Sending."

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
wylie1
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:41 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Toronto

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by wylie1 »

I've looked at this type of thing before but their not cheap. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HearBack4pk.
This is the amps I use nice hi gain for those people that like the cans cranked http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HeadAmp6Pro
I fined it pretty hard to please everybody with their headphone mixes.
MacPro 3.2 ghz 8 core 12gig,DigimaxFS, 2408mk3,8Pre,828mk3,Ozone5,MachFive3, BFD2, Sampletank2,DP8.+,Sampletron,Nectar,Central Station,D5s,Q10s.plus stuff.
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Shooshie »

I just keep finding things to post in this thread.


Here's the HA8000 at Sweetwater:
Image


Here's a sample of the front panel:
Image

And the back:
Image

One can see that each section (8 separate amps) has both a discreet TRS input (check the specs at Sweetwater; you'll see 8 TRS direct inputs), and the ability to use the global Main Inputs, either 1 or 2. Very nicely thought-out device.

If you want to provide 8 individual stereo headphone mixes, each tailored to the player who is listening to it, we've got the means to do that:
• 16 channels of MOTU interfaces, such as two 896mk3 units
• CueMix paged channel mixes
• breakout cables/adapters from Hosa or Planet Waves (the latter is great if you can get them; they stopped making that particular cable.)
• Behringer HA8000
• 8 Pair of headphones

It's always been cool that CueMix allowed you to do that, but putting it in practice seemed like a very expensive and difficult proposition. It's still not cheap, but if you've got the MOTU interfaces, the cables are available, and the Behringer is the key piece of gear. At $150, it's an amazing bargain! All that remains then are the phones; nobody said that they all have to be top-of-the-line, but with individual amps they can be a mix of phones ranging from Sony MDR-7509 to some cheap crap headset that came with a CD player... even earbuds.

Of course, they don't have to be stereo. Mono greatly simplifies the whole picture, but if you want to go all the way, there is the recipe for it.

Shooshie
Last edited by Shooshie on Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
Tritonemusic
Posts: 2730
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Tritonemusic »

I've used that Powerplay, now that you bring it up, Shooshie. A small studio I work in sometimes, has that unit and it always seemed to work out quite well, FWIW. I wish I could remember more details.

The primary DAW there is DP. 8)
DP 10.13, OS 13.6, iMac Pro (2017) 3.2 GHz 8-Core, 32 GB RAM, MOTU M4
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Shooshie »

wylie1 wrote:I've looked at this type of thing before but their not cheap. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HearBack4pk.
This is the amps I use nice hi gain for those people that like the cans cranked http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HeadAmp6Pro
I fined it pretty hard to please everybody with their headphone mixes.
That's a nice unit, too! Six amps, six discreet inputs or global input with 6 independent outputs. Basic EQ per channel. Very nice!

I don't know how either the Behringer or this one sound, but we don't have to recreate audiophile environments for each player! Most studio players would find it a luxury to have their own volume knob, much less a complete mix!

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
wylie1
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:41 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Toronto

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by wylie1 »

never heard the Behringer but the ART is nice I'm more worried about getting my fingers tangled up in the guitar strings than about how the cans sound.
But if its loud enough for the drummer and clean enough for the singer it works for me.
MacPro 3.2 ghz 8 core 12gig,DigimaxFS, 2408mk3,8Pre,828mk3,Ozone5,MachFive3, BFD2, Sampletank2,DP8.+,Sampletron,Nectar,Central Station,D5s,Q10s.plus stuff.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by mikehalloran »

I don't know how either the Behringer or this one sound, but we don't have to recreate audiophile environments for each player! Most studio players would find it a luxury to have their own volume knob, much less a complete mix!
I had the same lack of concern for fidelity when I bought the Behringer. I am not a fan of the brand but, if it can do what I need, I'll take functionality over quality...

I was pleasantly surprised by the sound – or rather lack of it. I have no reservations recommending it to others.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Shooshie »

mikehalloran wrote:I had the same lack of concern for fidelity when I bought the Behringer. I am not a fan of the brand but, if it can do what I need, I'll take functionality over quality...

I was pleasantly surprised by the sound – or rather lack of it. I have no reservations recommending it to others.
That's a relief! I have a Behringer HA400, which is a 4 port, 4 knob, powered headphone amp with only one stereo input. The sound is noisy, and the lack of fidelity is quite noticeable. Might work for kids watching Saturday morning TV while the parents sleep, but it's cheap in every connotation of the word.

I've had the HA8000 in my "shopping cart" for weeks. I guess it's time to pull the trigger on that.

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by mikehalloran »

Big difference between the Micro Amp HA400 and the Powerplay Pro HA4700 and HA8000.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Shooshie »

mikehalloran wrote:Big difference between the Micro Amp HA400 and the Powerplay Pro HA4700 and HA8000.
I sure hope so!
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
monkey man
Posts: 13918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by monkey man »

I've had the Powerplay Pro HA4600 at least a decade now. It's mean, nasty and loud. Just what players want.

Can't remember why, but I remember regretting not having waited a little longer 'till the 8000 appeared. Better spec and / or functionality, so I reckon you couldn't really go wrong with that puppy, Shoosh.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
Novation, Yamaha & Roland Synths, Guitar & Bass, Kemper Rack

Pretend I've placed your favourite quote here
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9713
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by HCMarkus »

Shooshie wrote:I have a Behringer HA400, which is a 4 port, 4 knob, powered headphone amp with only one stereo input. The sound is noisy, and the lack of fidelity is quite noticeable. Might work for kids watching Saturday morning TV while the parents sleep, but it's cheap in every connotation of the word.
The general suckiness of that unit is beyond question.

But please, Shooshie, I implore you; pick up the soldering iron and assemble the custom cables of your dreams! Use the Rane Guide and simply pretend the TRS plugs (which will plug into TRS jacks on whatever headphone amp you choose) are actually two unbalanced TS plugs sharing a common ground on the TRS plug sleeve.
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: Need Cables for Individual Headphone Monitoring in CueMi

Post by Shooshie »

HCMarkus wrote:
Shooshie wrote:I have a Behringer HA400, which is a 4 port, 4 knob, powered headphone amp with only one stereo input. The sound is noisy, and the lack of fidelity is quite noticeable. Might work for kids watching Saturday morning TV while the parents sleep, but it's cheap in every connotation of the word.
The general suckiness of that unit is beyond question.

But please, Shooshie, I implore you; pick up the soldering iron and assemble the custom cables of your dreams! Use the Rane Guide and simply pretend the TRS plugs (which will plug into TRS jacks on whatever headphone amp you choose) are actually two unbalanced TS plugs sharing a common ground on the TRS plug sleeve.
I considered that after reading your post and the link to the Rane site's great instructions. That's excellent stuff, and I saved it for possible future work. But I finally found some really good cables and adapters, and they are doing all the right things. The cable tester tells me exactly what's hooked up to what, including the shield. I like the durability of some of these things; I can't make them that way! When I run temporary cables, as for headphones or microphones, they are often in paths with a bit of foot traffic. I need for them to be able to take some abuse, even under rugs.

Anyway, I have what I need now, and I've thrown away a lot of under-performing cables and adapters, so I'm in good shape until I move to a more permanent location for my studio.

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
Post Reply