Whiplash (The Movie)

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:26 pm

Have you seen it? I've seen it twice now. Thought it was fantastic. I'm assuming others on this list saw it. Very interesting and thought provoking.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:34 pm

It's high on my list to see. Unfortunately, I haven't made it yet.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:06 pm

mikehalloran wrote:It's high on my list to see. Unfortunately, I haven't made it yet.

It's out on DVD. I rented it at RedBox. Highly recommended!!!

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:46 pm

I spoke to a friend today who recommended it. She has watched it like 5 times. OK, it's on my list! Thanks.

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:53 pm

Looks really good. Thanks for letting me know about it.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:49 am

I'm telling you... you guys would really, really dig it.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:47 am

From the trailer, it appears that the director is not a nice guy. He said, "there are no two words more destructive than 'good job.'" I guess I'll have to see the movie to see how it turns out, but I've worked with people like that, and I've seen them destroy budding young talents. They used all the manly excuses, the things you'd expect to hear in boot camp, but I never bought that crap. The best directors or teachers I've ever known were guys with an even keel, who knew their stuff well enough to describe it. Their students ended up in all the best bands and orchestras in the world. Maybe they could be impatient or hot tempered, but they never made it personal. They considered it their challenge to present the material in a way that the student could comprehend, then inspire them to try.

Maybe there are people out there who respond to the psychopathic method, but any asshole that ever pulled that on me got a piece of my mind, even-keeled, no less.

Ok, I've GOT to watch the movie now, because I have no idea what happens, but I hope it's not that the psychopath scares the kid into becoming great, who then responds with love for the guy who was so tough it made HIM tough, too, and he loved the guy for it, as in the Stockholm Effect.

That's a well-known Asian practice of parenting, often called "Tiger Mom." I guess there will always be people who believe it's right, and there will always be people who believe it's wrong.

Anyway, the movie is not out on iTunes yet. I'll be looking for it.
[EDIT] Actually, iTunes' movie side is down. The movie is there; you just can't access any movies right now. Surely it will be up soon.

Shooshie

BKK-OZ · Post by **BKK-OZ** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:22 am

I got the same impression from the trailer as you did Shooshie - turned me right off.

I'm thoroughly sick of wannabe-bullies, I have had to deal with too many over the years.
I don't have any heroes who were nasty, tough guys.
Plenty of heroes who were kind, thoughtful and generous, but none that thought they had to be cruel to be kind.

I may have misjudged the movie based on the trailer, but the trailer left me cold.

stubbsonic · Post by **stubbsonic** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:41 am

My music instructor in college was famous for his "old-school" methods. Though he was usually kind, and even generous (to me), he often used shame, guilt and humiliation as his go-to motivational tools. His use of insults, threats, and "toughness" always did more harm than good, and though he produced results, the cost was high.

My overall experience in college was mixed, I learned much that was useful, but had to recover/heal from it. I abruptly stopped playing my main instrument for 4 or 5 years off after graduation and leaving my home town. I had to proactively work to restore my relationship to art.

The trailer and subject matter are interesting to me, and I expect I'll watch it when it appears on streaming somewhere. But it will probably trigger some powerful memories. Perhaps, as with family dynamics, we'll see that victims can become abusers. Right now, the very thought of it puts my teeth on edge.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:19 am

Still waiting for iTunes to get back on line, fully, so that I can download and watch the movie. I don't want to say much more about it until I see the slant of the movie. It sure looks like one of those myths in which the "tough, cruel teacher gives student the prize of his life, securing his love and respect for doing what softer-touch teachers couldn't." That kind of story is almost universally opposite the reality of all the great players and teachers I've known.

But again I'm talking out of turn. I'd better see the movie first. Curse that iTunes! First time I've seen it down! And it's been for a day or two!

Shooshie

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:50 am

Well, I don't want to give too much away, but yes, the central character is without a doubt overbearing and it really generates some discussion as to when does someone go too far... classic "do the ends justify the means" scenario. Is this guy like a military drill instructor who is harsh but with some greater purpose to adequately prepare his charges to survive, or is he a sadistic, psychological bully? Or something in between? I don't want to give it away, nor by saying I really liked the movie am I expressing support for the main character. It's just a very interesting film that apparently was put together on a really tight budget and it will definitely make an impression one way or another and provoke discussion. It's not "Transformers."

cuttime · Post by **cuttime** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:01 am

Shooshie wrote:Still waiting for iTunes to get back on line, fully, so that I can download and watch the movie.
Shooshie

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apples-itu ... g-outages/

There's THIS

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:10 pm

Finally got to watch it.

GREAT EFFING MOVIE!

Everything I said before is true, but don't think the movie is that simple. It's a great movie, and I am so thankful to James for posting this thread.

We can debate the particulars later. WATCH THE MOVIE!

Shooshie

PS: I'll be watching it again as I get my daughter and possibly others to watch it.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:55 pm

Glad you got to watch it and liked it, Shoosh. I only have a two-year music degree and never really had any sort of intensive formal music education like depicted in the movie, but it seemed to me that many people on this forum would be able to relate to much of the movie. It seems like it's sort of an "inside baseball" look at the pressures that can come bear in what can sometimes be an intensely competitive field. All the while, it got me to think about what sort of dedication it took for Buddy Rich to become Buddy Rich, just as one prominent example.

Also, although I disagreed with some of the extreme tactics of "Terrence Fletcher," I could help be swayed during his monologue regarding the a cymbal being thrown at a certain iconic saxophonist.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:35 pm

James Steele wrote:Also, although I disagreed with some of the extreme tactics of "Terrence Fletcher," I could help be swayed during his monologue regarding the a cymbal being thrown at a certain iconic saxophonist.

I'd say that the cymbal had nothing to do with it. The incident I remember is that Charlie sat in with the band, and they changed to a different key. He hadn't practiced the song in that key and didn't know how to transpose. It was embarrassing to him, and he went home and resolved he would NEVER get caught like that again. See? It wasn't the cymbal. Nor was this the event that made him become who he was, musically. It was just that embarrassing moment that we ALL experience, when we learn that what we have is not good enough for what is required, so we resolve to fix it.

Fletcher put too much emphasis on the cymbal, as if THAT were the defining moment that created Parker's exploration of the upper partials in his solos. That was a long time before he started doing that kind of thing. That event only made him resolve to practice, and it was the embarrassment of being on stage, unable to play in their key, that was the real event. The guy who threw the cymbal did nothing to add to his embarrassment. He just rubbed salt in the wound.

Embarrassment is a powerful motivator. Humiliation is the better word. When you screw up in front of a thousand people, you resolve not to do that again. I used to play with symphonies a lot. I resolved from the beginning that I'd have a perfect record of symphonic performance. And I did. It was that important to me. I was proud of every note I played in orchestral concerts. But I'd had my watershed events on stage in recitals.

Anyway, the guy in the movie just had a warped sense of priorities and a self-inflated vision of his psychopathic behavior as the motivator that would "make or break" a kid. He was so wrong. But the movie more-or-less makes that understood by the end.

Shooshie

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