Guitar/Vocal amp question

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Shooshie
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by Shooshie »

Received the AER Compact 60 and the Bose L1 Compact yesterday. Right out of the box, the difference was unexpectedly huge. The L1 outclassed the AER severely. But then I tuned the AER, cutting the midrange by about 60%, boosting the treble about 30%, and I set it on a stool at a height more competitive with the Bose. It started sounding a lot better. Still, it has little bass, and when the midrange gets busy, it's very blurred. Just loses focus in comparison to the Bose L1.

We haven't tried them in a big hall yet; just our house. The drop-off from room to room is less for the Bose than for the AER, as reported by countless reviewers. I haven't read about the acoustics behind the Bose, but something's going on there, that's for sure. Even my daughter, who really wanted to hate the Bose, soon admitted that the sound of it is quite superior. I'm thinking about keeping both systems. Or maybe we'll try another. Undecided on all that.

The weight of both systems is tolerable. The AER is very lightweight. I think it's under 15 lbs. The Bose is about twice that. Less if you leave the tower at home.

I honestly wasn't expecting the Bose to outshine the AER by so much. Today, the "Tonematch" mixing board arrives. We'll see how the Bose sounds once you apply EQ and FX. I have a feeling it's going to be even more impressive. The L1 never sounds "boxy," at least not in comparison to the AER. Very nice, clear sound, lots of bass, good clean crossover.

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toodamnhip
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by toodamnhip »

The goal of this thread reminds me a bit of a guy asking< “can you find me a plug in that mixes a song in ONE plug in”...

It actually was a good question you asked, and it is really cool to hear your daughter’s story. But I have never found any “all-in-one” PA or cube or whatever, to do what is really needed for great sound. I know you know this but, there are reasons why theaters have 20+ pieces of equipment in the audio chain to present a concert. For one thing, when running vocals and guitars through the same small speaker, that is a problem. Any amp processing a vocal and a guitar might have additional problems, (cross overs etc)//. I do not envy the person trying to get a good sound in an ergonomically easy or simple manner. Individual components are what is really needed. I might have the same issues soon with my daughter. It is hard to have producer ears when seeing the live music of one’s child...nothing will satisfy a producer dad listening to his daughter...lol
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daniel.sneed
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by daniel.sneed »

toodamnhip wrote:[...]...nothing will satisfy a producer dad listening to his daughter...[...]
I've been thru the same type quest a few years ago.

I finally went for 2 Nexo PS8 and 1 sub. I use the sub only when I think it's absolutely needed.

Nexo PS8 is around 15 lbs each. Sub is around 30 lbs. Amp + processor weight depends on your choice.

Quite expensive, but tremendous power and clarity.
Many theater teams use them on tour for small shows in Europe.

More infos on this url
http://nexo-sa.com/en/products/21/ps8-r2/
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Gravity Jim
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by Gravity Jim »

I am no fan of the widely touted and stupidly overpriced Bose home and car crud... The slogan should be "Better Perception Through Marketing." But there was no denying the L1 when I heard it. What they've done is make a lightweight line array with such a wide dispersion that there doesn't seem to be an origin point. That leaves the eye to decide where the music is coming from, and the eye sees you, the performer, as the obvious source. So the audience doesn't feel like they're listening to a PA... They're listening to you, only louder. I didn't want to like it, either, but I do.
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by mhschmieder »

The post-review makes the goals clearer than beforehand. I didn't realize you want a lot of bass. I usually try to avoid bass (even though I'm a bassist) and it's why I sold my Taylor acoustic guitar. The AER is clearly going to lose the bass battle.

Glad to hear the Bose L1 is working out great. I'm not usually aware of whether I'm seeing the Bose or the Fishman or whether they're the same thing with different branding, but have been impressed in contexts where it is mostly a self-accompanied artist. I'm not sure how well they perform in the context of a full backline of gear for a larger band.

Bottom line, as was said earlier, is that someone facing a variety of performance contexts and group sizes, might need both units. :-) It's kind of hard to find a one-solution-meets-all for anything regarding live reinforcement. If you MUST choose one, you have to be VERY aware and confident of your most important criteria and likely venues and group sizes.

The L1, being a line array, will always be the more flexible solution. In many cases, it may also be the best-sounding one as well. Whether you need to hold onto the AER for other situations is hard to judge at this point, but if you have a full return policy (even with partial shipping), it might be a good idea to commit to your L1 decision and move on.

Line arrays are my livelihood, but I don't want to get into a long talk about their advantages, since I don't know the details of the Bose unit and as my company's opinion of Bose products and acoustical philosophy is why I got my job in the first place. :-) Sympathy, of course, to the family of the man himself and respect for the business savvy. Nothing personal implied. And hopefully the L1 indicates the company's future direction.
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by Shooshie »

I'm not much on brands, as I've always shopped for audio equipment with brand-agnostic blindfolds on, which has given me some great equipment over the years [MOTU, for instance]. There are a few things that I understand very well, and acoustics is one of them.

Another thing I keep learning is about being a dad. When she was little, I had pegged my daughter as a concert pianist. Her fluency with Chopin Preludes, Nocturnes, and Etudes made me certain that she would someday rock the concert halls, so I set about to teach her musicianship. That's when I learned a difficult lesson as a parent. Children have minds of their own, as well as goals of their own. Sometimes the goal is as simple as NOT to do what Dad wants. I finally realized I could not teach her the piano, because she would not let me, and that it was probably best that way. She learned it on her own, her way. Children are not given to us to fulfill our own dreams. It's more the other way around. Parents are given to children to help them fulfill THEIR dreams. So, that's what I've done ever since. When I came here asking about audio systems, I was acting as go-between. I'm not the one in charge of this project! But I did get the L1 on Jim's advice. My daughter admitted it's the better unit, but she is also listening to outside opinions, and those people (who have not heard the L1) are telling her that Bose is crap.

Anyone with ears knows that Bose can be crap. I mean the Bose that advertises in Playboy, Esquire, and Time magazines. Bose, Bang & Olufsen and Behringer are the 3 B's of Crap Audio (or in B&O's case, over-priced crap). But a few years back I bought some things from Behringer that I'm happy to say are not crap at all, but real professional gear. (a small keyboard and a patch bay) They're well made, and they are of superb design. I left a good review for each and raised my opinion of the company. When I found out about the Bose L1, I wondered if this would be another chink in the armor of my Musician's Mythology. It was.

The L1 Compact is very impressive, and the other models are even better, so I'm thinking about actually sending this one back and getting one of those. I have to solve one technical issue first, but once I've figured that out, and assuming it works out for the better, I'll be able to give this Bose unit my complete stamp of approval. I also have yet to hear it in a large, noisy environment, so I'm not done with this evaluation yet, but I'm seeing the writing on the wall: it's not about the old reputations. Sometimes companies do the right thing. This seems like one of those times.

I am also keeping the AER, because right now that's what my daughter wants to like. She's a woman trying to fit into a select club of talented people: professional musicians. Their opinions matter now. Later, she's going to realize that her ears matter more than their opinions. She's a genuine talent, as are many of them, but I've been a member of that club most of my life; I know they turn on you when you exercise independent thought and pull out in the lead. The point being that sometime soon she'll be wishing she was using something as good as the Bose L1, rather than trying to impress them, and when she does, it's going to be there.

I don't tell my kids what to do or what to use. I facilitate their growth, and try to stay ahead of them. I think she'll grow into the L1. And if she doesn't? Heck, I'll use it myself!

Shooshie
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by mhschmieder »

For those who visit this thread later, Bugera announced a new acoustic amp at NAMM today, 60 watts with mic and guitar input. Only $300!

http://www.harmonycentral.com/news/buge ... -amplifier
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Re: Guitar/Vocal amp question

Post by monkey man »

Back in "my" day, Turbosound was the bee's knees. For size / performance they were hard to beat. At least, that is, amongst the boxes I was exposed to.

Any good still? I'd have suggested them but figured things might have changed considerably.

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