Keyboard Maestro Question

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:53 am

I just downloaded Keyboard Maestro, which I'm trying out as a replacement for the ailing QuicKeys. (Hoping I don't have to make the switch)

So far, I have not seen any way to create "sticky" triggers, that is, triggers that must be done together in a particular order, to launch a shortcut into action. For example, in QK I can go through a whole range of color choices for a track in DP, in just a few seconds, using the same range of keys that I use in DP for transport controls: the keypad.

DP uses nearly every command on the keyboard for its own set of shortcuts, so how do you get unlimited triggers for QK using mainly the Keypad? A sticky trigger, in this case, involves a first trigger, such as COMMAND-OPTION-CONTROL-C, followed within a couple seconds by the next command: COMMAND-OPTION-CONTROL-[KEYPAD-7].

The two commands, back to back in rapid succession, open up the entire keyboard to almost infinite layers of commands, so that you simply can never run out of triggers from your keyboard. No more do you have to look for trigger conflicts between QuicKeys and your app, or between old shortcuts and new ones. Just add another layer with an initial trigger, then use any command you want for the 2nd trigger.

So, while holding down COMMAND-OPTION-CONTROL, I then hit C and [7]. The two triggers together run the menu item to change the track to a particular color. I can then hit [8], [9], [1], [2], and so forth, and over a period of about 6 seconds, all those secondary triggers that I'm hitting will run a different menu item, in this case track colors. So, by holding down COMMAND-OPTION-CONTROL, then hitting a string of keys, I can watch a whole slew of track colors being applied in rapid succession, stopping when I find one I like.

The same thing is possible with Window Sets, or any other high-volume set of commands, where you want to try a number of options before choosing one. You simply don't have to worry about running out of keys!

But in Keyboard Maestro, I have not found a way to link triggers for compound commands like those in QuicKeys. Does anyone know of a way to do that? Given my workflow and chosen methods, this is a deal killer if I cannot get that option.

I will write Keyboard Maestro's developer and ask for the feature if it doesn't already exist. But that could take years. Fortunately, my 2012 Mac Pro and Yosemite have not killed off QK yet. I'm just preparing for that moment down the road when Startly Technologies does the inevitable and announces that they have ceased development. They have not corrected bugs or done any updates in several years. Their responses on their website usually sound embattled and defensive. It's evident that the guy running things is not a programmer, and that he has run out of money to hire one. (speculation on my part, and not verifiable fact)

Shooshie

frankf · Post by **frankf** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:20 am

Shooshie
There is a forum, accessible from the KM homepage, where you can ask how to do this. But there is a "wait for input" (something like that) and IF statement where you can say "if I hit 6 do this", do this; also, hit 6, pause for x seconds, hit 7, etc. I could be misunderstanding you and am not a KM expert. The forum may be your best bet.

I'm curious, are there other applications for this layering that you use?

Frank Ferrucci

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:40 am

As I suspected KM is a pale, anemic replacement for QK. The interface is really convoluted and not at all intuitive or user friendly. The "forum" reflects that as well.

Frankly, I hate it and will work towards making it work since I bought the damn thing. But if QK survives and revives I'll drop KM in an instant. I'll post the reply I got from the forum via email. It's equally obtuse, IMO.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:44 am

The email: my initial forum question is quoted at the end:

peternlewis

January 6
You haven't really given enough information about your macro or how you've structured it for anyone to help you without making guesses. If you have an infinite loop, it is because the condition is remaining true. Or perhaps, if you are using actions that add things to the event queue (like Insert Text, Type a Keystroke, Click the Mouse), that you've already added many events to the event queue that the system hasn't processed yet.

mortilla:
Along these lines, I would like to know if it is possible to have the "scope" of an individual macro appear in certain sets apps, specifically, and not in others. It's what Quickeys calls "scope."

In Keyboard Maestro, Macro Groups control when macros are active. Configure the containing macro group to be active only in specific applications.

I get a lot of QuicKeys refugees. Keyboard Maestro and QuicKeys are very different, and can be a bit jarring initially, but I frequently get the comment along the lines of "Why didn't I switch sooner". Hopefully your experience will be similar.

Please read the wiki page on transitioning from QuicKeys for some tips, and also read the Quick Start (menu Help ➤ Quick Start) to understand the different parts that make up Keyboard Maestro and how they work together, as well as to become familiar with the terminology used in Keyboard Maestro.

To respond, reply to this email or visit http://forum.keyboardmaestro.com/

January 6
I am trying to create simple macros to enter user names and passwords, etc., while in Safari. I can create the macro with the condition of Safari being open and it works. If I include an Application Condition that Safari (or any other program) the text loops indefinitely (if allowed) or fills the boxes until the HTML page stops further typing or pasting (I tried both). Further, the infinite loop continues on going until I quit Kybd Mstro. Even if I quit the app I am targeting, the systems beeps furiously at the attempt to continually paste and repast, and repast the simple one word of text.

Along these lines, I would like to know if it is possible to have the "scope" of an individual macro appear in certain sets apps, specifically, and not in others. It's what Quickeys calls "scope."

Thank you.

Mike

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

adriano · Post by **adriano** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:54 am

Hello everyone,

Why not update to QK 4? It looks like it works in Yosemite.

EDIT: And here are some instructions for 10.9 and 10.10, just in case http://startly.com/support/

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:22 pm

Oh, QK is working for me at the moment, though it is a little flakey a times. By that, I mean that sometimes the shortcuts don't work until I go open the editor, mess around for a while, and close it. But MLC is saying that QK no longer works at all on his new Mac Pro, using SS Drives. It's apparently like the computer is too fast for the software. Maybe there's just a file out of place or something. I've got my fingers crossed.

I'm going to keep looking at Keyboard Maestro, but I'm certainly not going to switch to it permanently until QK dies and buries itself.

Frank, you ask if there are other applications for the "sticky triggers." Yes. Anything, but especially where you might normally forego a series of shortcuts, because they require too many keyboard commands. What it gives you is unlimited keyboard commands, and the ability to run a lot of shortcuts. For example, I use about 30 shortcuts for track colors, all on the Keypad. That means using it twice, under two different starting triggers. Those starting triggers are CONTROL-OPTION-COMMAND-C and CONTROL-OPTION-COMMAND-Z. By switching one finger of the left hand, I can quickly run through the entire keypad twice, not affecting any commands put there by MOTU.

In the Finder, I have a similar situation, where I download a number of files each day from a variety of sources, and I need to name and date them. Again, I start with CONTROL-OPTION-COMMAND-C, then (still holding down the modifier keys) I hit the first letter of each source to name and date the file. There are about 20 of those. They do not interfere with any other commands.

In this forum I've got commands for adding pictures, URLs, pictures tagged with URLs, bold, italic, lists, quotes, and so forth. There have been other forums in the past whose tags were slightly different, so I used the same commands there, but with a different starting trigger.

Rather than memorize more commands, you just change your first trigger and keep recycling the same ones. Basically, you hold down some mod keys, then instead of just ONE key to trigger the shortcut, you type two, in sequence. You can keep typing others as long as the first one remains "sticky," which is about 5 seconds. Then you have to type the first one again. In 5 seconds, I can usually find the track color I want, or I'll just hit it again and keep trying them.

Theoretically, it would be possible to have literally thousands of shortcuts for each app, each triggerable with a few keystrokes, all easy to memorize, because they use the same layers of key triggers over and over.

Sticky triggers can be stacked so that you use two, three, four, five, and maybe more, "sticky" triggers. With each trigger you add, you've exponentially increased the number of available keyboard commands at your disposal. The limit, I guess, is the 5 or 6 seconds you have to type them all, but the math is like this: where all possible keyboard commands = APC, then the number of possible triggers = APC + (APC x APC) + (APC x APC x APC) + (APC x APC x APC x APC), for the first four layers of triggers. If we assume there are only 125 possible commands (there are more than that), that number comes to 246,109,500 for just four layers of triggers! Five triggers takes you to close to 31 billion. Nobody will ever need that many, but the point is that you won't ever run out of keys with QuicKeys. Ever.

Shooshie

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:34 pm

I just realized how difficult it is to describe sticky triggers accurately. It's easy to get the idea slightly wrong. This video is about changing themes and track colors, but it incorporates the sticky triggers of QK at 2:22.

Open the vid to full screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrmbSFBF0k8

Then scroll to 2:22. Watch the UPPER RIGHT corner. You will see the sticky trigger appear, waiting on the next triggers that follow. While it does not show the final triggers, they all share the same left-hand keys with the sticky trigger. So, I'm just holding down three keys while typing a bunch of others, each of which changes the track color.

Maybe that is a better way of explaining it. And it shows what I want to accomplish in Keyboard Maestro, but apparently cannot.

That's sad, because the keyboard commands limit (especially those that were easy to reach) was always the problem when using a macro generator like QuicKeys. When they came out with Sticky Keys, there were no more limits.

Having watched QK develop for nearly 30 years, I would expect a new macro app to take at least 10 years to mature. There were others in the past that never made it, because they simply could not catch up to QK. I'm glad that Startly rescued QK for OS X, but I sure wish they could keep it going. I think the problem is that people just aren't using their computers the way they used to, and are instead using mobile devices and specialized apps for everything. l use Siri on iOS to do things that QuicKeys does on my Mac.

Shooshie

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:42 pm

Well, QK works but is not reliable. Some commands work, others, especially mouse recordings, are now non-functional.

Never the less, Keyboard Maestro is turning into a grand disaster! I just posted this to their "forum."

When I launch iTunes (Yosemite) the cmd-q key is non-functional if Keyboard Maestro is running. If I quit KM, function returns to normal. Run KM and the behavior returns. I have no macros using the cmd-q sequence and no macro set for iTunes. Also the iTunes main window disappears completely and if it is there and I'm in full screen, I can't access the menus or cmd-q. I have to control-tab to move to another program and then force quit iTunes. Again, this is only when KM is running.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:09 pm

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Well, QK works but is not reliable. Some commands work, others, especially mouse recordings, are now non-functional.

Never the less, Keyboard Maestro is turning into a grand disaster! I just posted this to their "forum."

When I launch iTunes (Yosemite) the cmd-q key is non-functional if Keyboard Maestro is running. If I quit KM, function returns to normal. Run KM and the behavior returns. I have no macros using the cmd-q sequence and no macro set for iTunes. Also the iTunes main window disappears completely and if it is there and I'm in full screen, I can't access the menus or cmd-q. I have to control-tab to move to another program and then force quit iTunes. Again, this is only when KM is running.

It was usurping keys from me, too, as well as some of my gestures on the Magic Trackpad. Instead of doing what they were supposed to do, a Keyboard Maestro green-panel would appear, trying to do something else.

I disabled it in the Privacy Panel in System Preferences, but it still did it, EVEN AFTER QUITTING. I had to open Activity Monitor and kill the Keyboard Maestro process for things to return to normal.

Shooshie

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:21 pm

If I'm going to deal with a flaky program either way I'll go back to QK.

Anyone want to buy a Keyboard Maestro subscription - cheap?

I didn't think so.

A waste of $36 and a few hours. Back to QK.

stubbsonic · Post by **stubbsonic** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:23 pm

I wonder if there could be some kind of a Kickstarter (or other crowd-source) thing to help give Startly whatever shot in the arm it needs to hire a power-programmer to get QK back up to to functioning with this and perhaps the next OS-- (backward to whatever OS is broken?).

Seems like one of those one-of-a-kind utilities that not everyone knows they need. But those who really know really need.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:06 pm

Will Kickstarter fund existing companies?

Startly started out underfunded, IMO. They had bought QK from the previous company, which was a legendary Mac software company (can't think of it right now), but it had spent a fortune on upgrading to OS X, and then Apple had pulled the rug out from under them, making about half the things QK does non-functional.

In addition, the new QK for OS X had added some interface "features" that made it very hard to use. You had to open a 'drawer' to access a set of icons or menus, then... well... it's not important, but what used to take about 10 seconds turned into a minute or two of mousing around just to create the simplest of shortcuts. The Apple problem had apparently made that necessary. No longer could QK look at other apps' menus and grab what it needed; you had to direct its every move.

I had promised them a review. When I got a copy to review, I had to write them and tell them I wouldn't review it. I explained either I write a bad review — scathing — or I give them time to fix it and try again. That's when I learned about all the stuff behind the scenes.

They began petitioning Apple to fix that, along with us users, but by the time Apple gave them the hooks they needed into OS X, the damage was done. Thousands of buyers had left. (I used to have a friend who worked at the company) The company was based in Omaha or somewhere in that vicinity. (Maybe it was Des Moines? Yes, i think it was Des Moines, because I remember when they went through a flood.) They couldn't just shout out the window that they needed some help, as you can in Silicon Valley, so hiring programmers was expensive and more on a contract basis. Anyway, the owner decided to throw in the towel. It looked like QK was about to fold.

Then, some of the employees got together and bought the company, or at least they bought QK, and renamed it Startly Technologies. This was about 2004. They were able to get QK working again, and they eliminated some new interface features that had slowed down the shortcut creation process, and they made QK a breeze to use, once again, as it had been in OS9. I thought it was better than ever. I mean, there's no question about it. It WAS better than ever, and by a very large margin.

I lost touch with my friend. I never knew if he was one of the Startly guys, but I think he was. I got the impression that they went through hard times after their initial launch. I did give them the review they asked for, at long last, but I don't know if or how they ever used it. At least part of my review was about how QK had risen once again from the ashes, that it was back, and great, etc. But communications with Startly were very difficult. I rarely got replies, and they were usually form-letter replies. I got the impression they had fired all but one or two people. (THIS IS JUST CONJECTURE; I do not really know what happened after the release of the improved QK.) Updates were slow and barely adequate. It seemed like they were avoiding actual coding. They did one more face-lift with version 4, but it had problems. As you can see on their site, there are work-arounds just to make it run in Mavericks and Yosemite, but they do work.

I bought my first version of QuicKeys in 1987. That makes 27 years that I've been using it. I would really, really hate to see it go now. I do hope they get on top of the problems and get it working again for the new Mac Pros. Chances are, if it's not working on your new "trash can" Mac Pro, it's probably not going to work on the new iMacs, either.

Shooshie

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:44 pm

Shooshie wrote:it's probably not going to work on the new iMacs, either.

I couldn't get it working on my older iMac. I got the trial on the advice of people here. The first macro I did was to put two Finder windows side by side. But the positions and sizes of the windows were inconsistent. It seems to me that if it can't do that, it's not likely to be able to do things in the DP edit windows that presume knowing the position of the mouse relative to specific places in the edit window. I asked for help from Startly, but they were unable to come up with anything. I gave up on it.

Tried the KM trial, but it was rather opaque and I didn't have the time or interest to follow through with it. Scanning the manual it was not clear what it does that I can't do as easily by assigning shortcuts to Finder commands, or writing scripts.

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:59 pm

Tried the KM trial, but it was rather opaque and I didn't have the time or interest to follow through with it. Scanning the manual it was not clear what it does that I can't do as easily by assigning shortcuts to Finder commands, or writing scripts.

That was my impression. Everything I looked at involved a complicated process of putting together a list of obscure list of commands that eventually triggered an applescript (that I had to write). If I had that kind of skill writing scripts I’d just do the whole thing that way. I didn’t really get it.

The whole QK disaster is really is really going to be a big problem for me at some point, but for right now it still does what I need it to.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:25 pm

So... Quickeys has really been acting up on the old trash can. As a result, I've played with KM this evening, and while the GUI is far from user friendly and nowhere near as inviting as Quickeys, I can get it to work, as long as I use the additional app MouseCoord to tell me where the moles is in any particular program at any particular moment. Once that BS is done with, I can program mouse clicks and all sorts of triggers and QK is offically GONE from my system.

Alias poor Quickeys, I knew you well. Whether it is nobler to suffer (or move on) who cares. I HAVE TO move on and there is only ONE alternative. Damn!

Thing is, once KM is working it is working quite well.

MOTUnation.com