How old is DP8?

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MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

You're too kind. Sarcasm is so much higher an intellectual process than just piling on. Thanks for thinking of me.
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by mikehalloran »

The compression/expansion algorithm would be a refinement. DP8 currently has this function BUT we want it better, without the crappy artifacts that we currently get when we use it.
Try using it with a bass speaking voice. I won't post an audio file lest someone think I sound like that.

Yes, there are other tools but it would be really nice if DP's worked well.
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by BKK-OZ »

Slightly OT, but anyone looking for time stretching might want to check out the intro price on IRCAM'S TS: http://store.dontcrack.com/product_info ... ts_id=1680
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…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by csiaudio »

BKK-OZ wrote:Slightly OT, but anyone looking for time stretching might want to check out the intro price on IRCAM'S TS: http://store.dontcrack.com/product_info ... ts_id=1680

BKK I've tried it but wasn't really impressed. Have you tried it...what did you think about it?
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by BKK-OZ »

No, I haven't tried it, I don't have any particular need for it, so I can't recommend it personally, but IRCAM do some good work, so I would be surprised if it wasn't pretty good.

It is on sale for $99, with a RRP of (I think?) @299.
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…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by csiaudio »

BKK-OZ wrote:No, I haven't tried it, I don't have any particular need for it, so I can't recommend it personally, but IRCAM do some good work, so I would be surprised if it wasn't pretty good.

It is on sale for $99, with a RRP of (I think?) @299.

Yeah their reputation is extremely good - I'm going to have to try it again to confirm if it's a good option for me.

Thanks!
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by Shooshie »

I've used IRCAM's time stretching algorithms in Mach Five 3. It's the best I've heard. I mean... it's the best by a LOT. Of course, my problem is that I haven't used that many other TS algorithms. If you've heard better, I'd sure like to know what you've heard. And what did you not like about IRCAM's? I'd just be surprised if there are better time stretching tools anywhere.
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by RROY »

I tried the demo, IRCAM's time stretching abilities are excellent. It's been awhile since I tried it, I believe the pitch shifting was equally good.
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by csiaudio »

Shooshie wrote:I've used IRCAM's time stretching algorithms in Mach Five 3. It's the best I've heard. I mean... it's the best by a LOT. Of course, my problem is that I haven't used that many other TS algorithms. If you've heard better, I'd sure like to know what you've heard. And what did you not like about IRCAM's? I'd just be surprised if there are better time stretching tools anywhere.

The best I've heard comes with Pro Tools. Hands down it's amazing.
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Re: How old is DP8?

Post by Shooshie »

csiaudio wrote:Shooshie,

With all due respect, and I do respect you because mostly your replies on this board are great - but I will disagree with your reply. Here is why. The things that you went through are either work arounds or MOTU just won't do that....not, 'can't do that' - just won't do that.

Here is what makes a great DAW: Details/Refinement. DP has been around FOREVER and we that use DP8 are reaping the rewards of that refinement. But we're all discussing even further refinements, right? DP8 is over 2 years old and that is an eternity in software-land. All those refinements that have happened over the years should make it so you don't have to do 'work arounds' to get something done. Such as some thing so rudiment as copy and pasting a Word doc name to create a session name. This wasn't an issue before yet it is since DP8...other new DAW's don't have this issue and they're writing their code in the same code...yet, MOTU 'can't' do this? Come on. So for the past 2 years I and others have had to create and do a 'work around' because of their inability to make this happen? Sorry, I don't buy it.

The compression/expansion algorithm would be a refinement. DP8 currently has this function BUT we want it better, without the crappy artifacts that we currently get when we use it. Pro Tools has an awesome algorithm for this function - I want that in DP!! LOL And, if I didn't despise PT's I would use there DAW, but that's a different topic.

The point is, we can't make excuses for MOTU saying they 'can't' because we all know that work arounds work - but why can't we have it so it just works without all the work arounds?


Peace!!
Ultimately, I don't think we're really disagreeing on the need for change, or the desire to convince MOTU to make said changes. We may be comparing apples and oranges, but I never said anything like "MOTU can't do this." What I told you was why it's unlikely that they will do certain things at this time.

True, I did mention using Spaces to keep your edit windows open all the time, so that they're always where you left them; no scrolling required. That's not really a work-around. DP, like most apps, is designed so that when you leave windows open the content stays put. Spaces just facilitates leaving more windows open than is convenient if they are all stacked on top of each other.

But we're not disagreeing over the need to be adding and updating things, always. People think that because I've used DP for so long, I just don't like to see change. That's opposite of reality. I have always reported to MOTU any need for changes that I could see. But I raised a family and put kids through college on DP, so I have always had to get the job done. What some people call "work-arounds", I call "work." I didn't have the option to refuse to use it, or to decide I would use another DAW that month just because some feature I wanted didn't exist. I made it work no matter what I had to do, and if it was troublesome, I got on the phone to MOTU and/or wrote them a letter, and did my level best to get DP changed to make my work easier. One feature took 6 years to convince them to add, but they finally added it at the end of 1997: "Preserve Original Performance." That totally revolutionized my work in each of the dialogs in which that option appears. Literally 6 years it took: I started asking in January 1992, and they delivered in January, 1998.
    • :deadhorse:
Anyway, keep asking MOTU for changes, and they might make them. Meanwhile, what you call workarounds are methods of working faster and easier. Anyone who can work without "work-arounds" isn't hurting too badly, or he'd use them. The resistance to using methods like that has always baffled me. Why would someone see a method I've (or anyone has) created using the tools that MOTU and Apple gave us, and refuse to use it, only because it's not labeled with its own button and documented in the manual? It's a working method. It works. It saves time and effort, often drastically! It gets your work done. To refuse such a thing is... well... kinda odd.
    • :shake:
And once again, I never said MOTU can't do something. Nor did I say they won't. I said certain things are unlikely right now, but I also encouraged you to send suggestions to them. We did not disagree on those things. I still send them things, too.

Workarounds, however, we disagree on. It's like needing a van to carry your gear to a gig, but someone shows up with a pickup truck. Does the band say "sorry, but that's a workaround, and we don't do workarounds," or do they load up the gear and get to the gig? Honestly? It just depends on how hungry they are. And if they refuse the "workaround," they aren't very serious about it. Who started this idea that workarounds are 2nd-rate methods, anyway? My workarounds put me so far out ahead of anyone who doesn't use them that they couldn't possibly catch up without them. And you think that's a bad thing? Dude, DAWs are made for customizing, because they HAVE to be. A work-flow (which is what I call these things you call "workarounds") is something you create using the shortcuts and tools that are available, whether they come from MOTU, QuicKeys, Apple, Waves, or whomever. Refuse to create your own workflows or use another's, and you have just stomped on your own foot. When people refuse to use, say, my selection shortcut because it's a "workaround," it only tells me that they haven't had to select a lot of controllers that go exactly with the musical phrase in question. If they'd done that a couple hundred times, they'd cheer to find that "workaround."
    • :woohoo:
Meanwhile, I will continue to petition MOTU for a button that switches our events to ranges, or which simply select controllers that belong to any given note, or to come up with their own kick-ass method of editing tons of MIDI notes with controllers while keeping musical phrases intact. They have one major challenge in doing so: their method has to top mine. My "workaround" takes approximately ⅛ second to convert event selection to range selection. Can they beat it?

It's a pity that you had to be the one to receive my ire, but hearing about "workarounds" one more time just overtaxed my tolerance for the ridiculous. And ridiculous it IS to ridicule workflows, denigrate them because they are "workarounds," refuse to use them because MOTU didn't label a button for it, and so forth. If you ever actually TRY these things, you might find out just how much time they save you. Gads! One learns dozens of them over the years. USE them for goodness sake! They don't prevent you from asking MOTU for change. They get your freaking work done! Fast. They save your wrists and elbows. And as MOTU examines these workflows and tries to improve on them with actual dedicated tools, we'll just use those new tools to come up with even MORE workflows. Workarounds are going to be with us forever! They are part of software evolution. Without them, software would not evolve.

[getting off soap box... taking a breath...]
:mumble:

Whew. Is this thing on? Can anyone hear what I'm saying? Don't all jump in at once, now. There is a valuable lesson to be learned from this post:

Don't EVER tell Shooshie that workarounds are undesirable!!! :twisted:

Shooshie
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