Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

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pacificm
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Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by pacificm »

I started out as a kid playing organ. Now, I'm hooked on Digital Performer and a host of MIDI-based virtual instruments. I like being able to compose using a wide variety of high quality virtual sounds that I can work with in the MIDI environment.

It was for this reason that I stopped using a conventional organ. The only problem is I still miss being able to work with quality B3 sounds. On the piano side, I use Synthogy which has put together some very impressive virtual piano keyboard sounds - http://www.synthogy.com/products/ivorygrand.html.

I'm still trying to find a virtual B3 that has the same level of quality sound that Sythogy has for pianos. I've been using MOTU's Electric Keys which has some B3 samples that are good, but I have not found them in my opinion of the Synthogy quality.

Any suggestions for high quality virtual B3s ? Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Thanks!
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by HCMarkus »

I liked Native Instruments' B4 but, because I'm running in the 64-bit world now (which B4 does not support, and I don't have one of those 64<>32 bit converter programs), I have of late been using the Vintage Organ in NI's Kontakt sampler with fine results. NI's Komplete is a pretty comprehensive package that includes the virtual organ.

In real life (aka Live Shows), I love my Neo Ventilator Leslie sim… makes my formerly anemic Motif organ sounds roar!
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by mikehalloran »

UVI Retro Organs may still be on sale. I've seen it low as $29 from a reseller recently.

http://audiodeluxe.com/products/uvi-retro-organs

The up side is that there are lots of samples and they are good. The down side is that it is samples only.
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by Dwetmaster »

gsi VB3 is still the top contender in terms of top quality. But it is 32Bit and has had a "not-so-stable-with-DP" reputation through the years.

Personally I strongly think that most of the B3 emulations will get the job done pretty good if used alongside Amplitube's Excellent Leslie Emulation as speaker emulation.

And believe me I've searched A LOT.
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pacificm
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by pacificm »

I'm using 64 bit and from what people are saying gsi VB3 "has had a 'not-so-stable-with-DP' reputation through the years" so it does not appear to be a viable option.

Like I mentioned above, I do have B3 samples in MOTU Electric Keys. So, I have more follow up questions -

1) Any comments how the UVI Retro Organs measure up to the MOTU samples? (I couldn't locate any sound samples on the Retro site.)
2) Any comments on how the LX122 Leslie Simulator measures up to the Amplitube's Excellent Leslie Emulation?
3) Do the Leslie Simulators work well with Digital Performer & how do they work in the DAW?
4) Is any one using the MOTU B3 samples and found any FX settings that help to improve the sound quality?

Thanks!
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by Dwetmaster »

The Leslie is part of Amplitube's 3 Bundle
It's pretty straight forward in DP:
You put it as an insert on your B3 VI's track. Then Amplitube 3 will show as a MIDI destination so you can control the speed.
I usually create a MIDI device group so I can play both the organ AND the leslie with a single MIDI track.
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by Shooshie »

For what it's worth, Mach Five has a built-in B3. It's been 8-9 years since I looked at it, so I can't vouch for it in any way except that I thought the drawbars were cool when I played it back-when. It had a Leslie simulator, too. I was impressed at the time, but that was really quite some time ago.
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by mikehalloran »

Retro Organs samples are found here. This is what sold me on them last time they got this inexpensive.
http://www.uvi.net/en/vintage-corner/retro-organs.html

You can use Mach V or the free UVI player.

My understanding is that some of them are part of Mach V. Since its UVI, that makes sense. At $29, I'm not concerned if there's some overlap.

I can understand the desire for the ultimate Hammond B VI but Mach V and decent samples works for anything I'm doing now.
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by Gravity Jim »

I miss B4 as much as anyone... I almost went to the trouble of creating an OS8 boot volume just so I could install it from my original discs, but figured it still wouldn't work without some kind of bridge... but I'm really not hating NI's Vintage Organs. i've got the sliders on my Keylab49 set up to run the drawbars, and it's plenty good for my needs.

If I considered B3 my primary instrument, I'd invest in one of the old Korgs or digital Hammonds, but short of that, Vintage Organ's sound swell. Interesting point about using an "outboard" leslie sim, though. I'll have to try that.
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by Babz »

The organs in Electric Keys are a subset of the UVI Retro Organ package. Same samples. MOTU licenses them from UVI. Or put another way, the UVI package is an expanded version of what you get with Electric Keys. I have Electrc Keys and was thinking of getting Retro Organs because it's so cheap right now. If you end up getting it, I would be curious to know how much overlap there is. It's more about conserving HD space than cost for me just now.

Meanwhile, I am currently working on my first project with NI's Vintage Organs and found that they are slightly out of true pitch (a tiny bit sharp)! I had to micro tune my track to get it in tune. I had heard about this in the past but I thought I heard that NI had fixed this since the initial release. Apparently not.


Babz
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by mikehalloran »

The organs in Electric Keys are a subset of the UVI Retro Organ package. Same samples. MOTU licenses them from UVI. Or put another way, the UVI package is an expanded version of what you get with Electric Keys. I have Electrc Keys and was thinking of getting Retro Organs because it's so cheap right now. If you end up getting it, I would be curious to know how much overlap there is.

I don't know how much space the organs in Electric Keys takes.

Retro Organs.ufs takes 3.26G disk space.
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by Babz »

OK, checking what I see in this Youtube review against what I have in Electric Keys, it seems you do get substantially more material:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho5iIEK7JA0

You also get better sound naming. In EKeys, the patch names are based on drawbars (e.g., 88000000), which tells you very little, and it's hard to remember which patch is which.

However, in both products, it is a "snapshot" approach. You get separate patches with slow and fast Leslie, and it's up to you to set up programming in EKeys.

In UVI Retro Organs, some of that is mapped to mod wheel for you on some patches. You also get separate patches fast and slow patches. It also seems like percussion is a separate stand alone patch that you have to layer in yourself. The recordings themselves are nicely done. But you get a lot of the same setting recorded with different mics and amps, etc.

Over all still not bad deal at all for $29! But it will take some work setting it up and some careful crafting in performance to pull of convincing results. I would say it is worth it to get even if you have Electric Keys.

Still seems like nothing has come along to replace B4. (And it wasn't a perfect solution either.)

I wish Arturia would do a B3. They do great vintage recreations.

Best,
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by BobK »

Here's something you might want to check out - HamMR+ library from SoundDust. I picked it up on sale a few months ago but haven't spent much time with it.

http://dulcitone1884.virb.com/hammr+
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by pacificm »

Earlier in this thread someone suggested the importance of a good Leslie simulator. I grew up with a real Leslie and loved using it. So, I tried out the AmpliTube 3 Rotary 147-1 Cabinet and the LX 122 Premium https://www.xils-lab.com/products/LX122.html. The AmpliTube Cabinet cost $19 and the LX 122 Premium ran 69 Euros (about $85 USD.) I'm still new to both of these, so these are just first impressions. AmpliTube 3 has lots of tools which appear to be primarily geared for guitars. The Rotary 147-1 could feasibly be used for most any instrument and is a reasonably good simple Leslie. The LX 122 Premium is a whole other animal. It appears to be primarily focused for the organ and is a full featured plug-in. In fact, it has so many features that it is almost overwhelming. Fortunately, it comes with a large number of presets which automatically and easily set up each feature for that particular sound. You can create and save your own presets as well. I was very impressed with the LX 122 Premium and would definitely recommend it for consideration.

The whole search for a high quality B3 reminded me of another option. I'd been using software-based virtual instruments for so long I forgot I had an E-MU B3 64 Voice Tone Wheel Organ - a rack mountable external sound module I had put into storage. I dragged it out, mounted it, plugged it in and was very happy I hung onto it. It had a lot to offer. I tested out the E-MU B3 and the Electric Keys B3s with both of the Leslie simulators. So far, my favorites are the Electric Keys or the E-MU B3 with the LX 122 Premium. It would be nice if MOTU were to come out with an update to Electric Keys with an FX window that included some elements of a good Leslie simulator. But, for now it's good to have simulator options out there. Using a Leslie simulator was an excellent suggestion!
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Re: Searching for a High Quality Virtual B3

Post by David Polich »

GSI's VB3 is the best virtual B3 currently available. Ignore those "not-stable-in-DP" reports, those are from ages ago. I have it and it runs great in DP 8.07, if you use SoundRadix's 32 Lives to make it work as a 64-bit VI.

32 Lives is a must have. It enables me to run NI's B4II in DP as well. It's available hereL
http://www.soundradix.com

FWIW, I have Amplitube 3's rotary cabinet and while it's good, it doesn't include the amp
section of the Leslie, so you can't really overdrive it. I purchased the LX122 and for me that
had MIDI implementation problems. I now use Melda Peroductions Vintage Rotary which to
my ears is the best Leslie simulator plug-in out there.

NI's Vintage Organs is okay but the Rotary speaker (Leslie) sucks because it switches between speeds instead of ramping up and down. Useless. Like the UVI and Electric Keys organs, it's all samples, and to me samples of organs don't really do it. That's why I recommend VB3, it's the only B3 VI that uses modeling instead of samples.
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