How many pro pianists in the US?

The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other off topic discussion.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other matters outside deemed outside the scope of helping users make optimal use of MOTU hardware and software. Posts in other forums may be moved here at the moderators discretion. No politics or religion!!
Post Reply
User avatar
buzzsmith
Posts: 3097
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Houston
Contact:

How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by buzzsmith »

As I was playing last night, a thought occurred to me...

What percentage of the U.S. population are working professional pianists?

I Googled every search term/phrase that I could think of.

I'm guessing way less than .1%...one out of a 1,000.

Thoughts?

Just curious...

Buzzy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)

User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

1% too many.
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by Shooshie »

I'd put it at more like 1 in 10,000. Maybe even 1 in 100,000. I think I know at least half of them. Ok, that's a joke, but remember, music IS a small world.

Of course, you have to qualify the question: exactly what is a professional pianist? Martha Argerich? of course. You? Of course. MIDI Life Crisis? Well... maybeee.... nah, of course! :wink: But what about the guys who work in a liquor store or porn shop all day long, then go play a gig at night? Are those guys professional pianists? Is there a basic skill set where we draw the cutoff? Like knowing your scales and arpeggios? Reading music? Being expert in one or more styles?

I say that anyone who continues to play gigs, regardless of their age or other employment status, is a pro. There are various levels of ability, fame or notoriety, but we have to draw a line somewhere, and I say it's at the working level. What do you guys say?

Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
Phil O
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Scituate, MA

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by Phil O »

I draw the line at the guy who works in the porn shop. Shoosh, porn shop, really? :rofl:

But seriously, I agree. If you are playing for money, that makes you a professional. Whether or not you play in a professional manner - that's a whole different question.
DP 11.23, 2020 M1 Mac Mini [9,1] (16 Gig RAM), Mac Pro 3GHz 8 core [6,1] (16 Gig RAM), OS 14.3.1/11.6.2, Lynx Aurora (n) 8tb, MOTU 8pre-es, MOTU M6, MOTU 828, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Satellite, a truckload of outboard gear and plug-ins, and a partridge in a pear tree.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by mikehalloran »

Church musicians, piano teachers, rehearsal accompanists and entertainers in senior homes... My wife does all of the above. There are a lot of pro gigs out there even if the majority are part time.

Some pay much better than others, of course.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
buzzsmith
Posts: 3097
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Houston
Contact:

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by buzzsmith »

So between MotuNation and Facebook replies so far, the consensus seems to be about 1 in 100,000 for, at least, making part of your income from some form of professional piano.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)

User avatar
Shooshie
Posts: 19820
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas
Contact:

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by Shooshie »

Well, I have to revise my estimate. In a town of 10,000 people, there are likely to be a dozen church pianists. While many of those are functionally among the most basic of players, they ARE performing important jobs in their communities. (and some are hotshot players!) Then there are usually a pianist or two in any town who can accompany the high school band and choir kids at solo and ensemble contests. In a city of 100,000, you'll always find a few people doing that. Again, they may not be the best pianists around, but they're also performing important jobs in the community, even if it's extremely seasonal.

In any school, there is always someone who plays piano for the choir, for plays, or presentations. I think we have to consider all these people and probably come up with a number closer to 1 in 1,000. The less densely populated an area is, the more likely that the number approaches 1 in 500 or even greater.

But if we're talking about solo pianists, people who take on the responsibility for setting the mood and entertaining large groups of people every night at clubs, restaurants, theater settings, concertizing, and the like, along with jazz, rock, and pop pianists who work in bands, then that number shrinks radically again. These are musicians who must be at the top of the game, at least in their locale, for a general public audience to want to come hear them. That's a very different kind of professional. I'm going to say 1 in 10,000 for those, if not fewer.

How would anyone get accurate figures on something like this? Would the AFM have any figures about that? Probably nothing reliable.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
User avatar
buzzsmith
Posts: 3097
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Houston
Contact:

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by buzzsmith »

I may need to set a % of income for this survey. :)

In my case, actual pro piano performing is about 30-40% of mine. Including my 3 nights/week solo and about 4-5 engagements a month with "da band".

Does not include any piano/keyboard work that I might do on a session.

In any event, very interesting comments!

Buzzy




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)

User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

I'm not a professional; I'm a mercenary. Lol
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11925
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by bayswater »

Most countries run some sort of regular occupational survey. In Canada, it's the Labour Force Survey. It might have changed, but at one point it collected information on a panel of 45,000 people a few times a year, asking them how many hours they worked, what they did, etc. I don't recall the US equivalent, but there was one, and it would have been done by the US Census Bureau.

These studies might not define "professional pianist" they way you want, and probably won't separate pianists from other musicians, but they will have at least one version of an answer.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
Avishai
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 11:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by Avishai »

Honey, we found Jesus.
User avatar
Phil O
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Scituate, MA

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by Phil O »

How many pro pianists in the US?

Three. One to hold the light bulb and two to turn the chair.
DP 11.23, 2020 M1 Mac Mini [9,1] (16 Gig RAM), Mac Pro 3GHz 8 core [6,1] (16 Gig RAM), OS 14.3.1/11.6.2, Lynx Aurora (n) 8tb, MOTU 8pre-es, MOTU M6, MOTU 828, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Satellite, a truckload of outboard gear and plug-ins, and a partridge in a pear tree.
User avatar
daniel.sneed
Posts: 2239
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: France
Contact:

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by daniel.sneed »

Way offtopic, but...
In China there are 66 000 000 people playing piano.
Gosh! Thats the number of the whole french population...
dAn Shakin' all over! :unicorn:
DP11.31, OS12.7.4, MacBookPro-i7-3.1Ghz-16GoRam-1ToSSD
Falcon, Kontakt, Ozone, RX, Unisum & Michelangelo, LX480
Waldorf Iridium & STVC & Blofeld, Kemper Profiler Stage, EWIusb, Studiologic VMK, ControlPad
JBL4326+4312sub, Behringer X32rack
Many mics, mandolins, banjos, guitars, flutes, melodions, xylos, kalimbas...
User avatar
bayswater
Posts: 11925
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:06 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Vancouver

Re: How many pro pianists in the US?

Post by bayswater »

daniel.sneed wrote:Way offtopic, but...
In China there are 66 000 000 people playing piano.
Gosh! Thats the number of the whole french population...
All at once?
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
Post Reply