MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

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MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by James Steele »

Does ANYBODY know if someone makes these or there's something that could be modified. I was looking for a footswitch box for muting a microphone... you know... with XLRs and it's simple a "cough box" mute thing. I'd LOVE to be able to make something controlled by MIDI. I'm using a headset mic and thought how cool it would be (since we're using backing tracks coming off a MacBook) to clean up the live audio by programming mutes for my vocal mic so I can minimize the amount of "heavy breathing" into the headset when not actually singing.

I could also try a noise gate, I suppose, but I'm concerned that it may be impossible to really get good results that way... also singing loudly versus softly would make dialing in the right threshold difficult. Ideas?
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by daniel.sneed »

I've been into this, James, with my DPA4088 headset.

My mixer was a Yam 01V at that time. I had two different scenes: one open mic, and one closed mic.
On stage, very easy to switch between both scenes with a MIDI controller: TC Electronic G Minor, or Keith Mc Millen Softstep.

Of Course, same thing applied to reverb levels, according to fast or low tempo songs.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by James Steele »

Right. I don't think I'll be in a situation where I'm providing the mixer. That's why I want something that will simply act as a mute to FOH. I don't think there's an off-the-shelf solution out there. One thing I *could* use is a Digital Music GCX loop switcher rack unit. I've replaced it with a Rocktron unit and don't use it anymore. It would be overkill since it has eight different relay controlled audio signal loops on mono 1/4" jacks and I'd just use one. I'd also have to use an unbalanced signal and then after the loop, use a direct box to make it balance XLR again.

The other over-kill option is finding some sort of TC harmonizer box that's used and older generation and not using any of the built-in effects, but just setting up a preset that turns the output level to zero, effectively muting it and then another that just passes it through.

What I'd really love to have though is just a small box with XLR-in and XLR-out that had MIDI IN and could simply mute or un-mute what's passing through it. Would be also nice if it had a conventional momentary switch which you could press that while pressed would either un-mute/mute (depending on a user configurable jumper, etc.) and also ignore incoming MIDI events while in this "override" position. Something like that would be quite useful to me. :)
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by Phil O »

I've seen some MIDI controlled line level VCA's out there, but not XLR (mic level), at least not in a single channel unit. You might have to use a mic pre and control things at line level. Also I don't know of any dedicated mute-only controllers, but a VCA might get you to where you're going.

Google search:
http://bit.ly/1w5Vgre

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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by Dan Worley »

I don't know of any, nor could I find one in a quick search. I think it's a fantastic idea, though. A simple MIDI controlled XLR mute box (however many channels) between the mic(s) and stage box. Great ideas come from necessity. You may need to get a custom shop involved.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by James Steele »

Phil O wrote:I've seen some MIDI controlled line level VCA's out there, but not XLR (mic level), at least not in a single channel unit. You might have to use a mic pre and control things at line level. Also I don't know of any dedicated mute-only controllers, but a VCA might get you to where you're going.

Google search:
http://bit.ly/1w5Vgre

Phil
Thanks, Phil. Actually, to give more specifics, I want to insert between my Sennheiser wireless receiver, and the FOH board. I'll probably be in a situation where I'm not supplying the mixer, so I just want something that a house engineer can plug into. Also, it would have to mute without audio pops, either.

Anyway, since it's coming OUT of my Wireless receiver, it's already line level. I could use the 1/4" jack on the back of the wireless receiver and then put something inline there, and then go to a direct box on the other side. I actually have a Voodo Labs (aka Digital Music) GCX switcher unit that I could use as a mute by using MIDI controller to throw a relay and break the connection that way. It's overkill and larger than I'd like being a full rackspace unit. It's unbalanced too, but I imagine a short run from the wireless receiver to it wouldn't be bad. Basically I could do this now I suppose, but it's not as elegant as if something were designed for this purpose. I could also reprogram my MIDI Raider controller pedals to set aside one switch for muting the headset mic across all presets.

So I guess if I don't sell my GCX switcher (which I could only get $150) I could have a rather bulky, kludgy solution for what I want to do. Of course, the Rocktron Patchmate unit I replaced it with in my guitar rack is also set to MIDI channel 16 (the GCX's default which can't be changed), so I'll have to change the Rocktron to Channel 15 and then update all my presets in my controller pedal to reflect that.

I was also online looking at first gen TC Helicon VoiceLive units which can be had relatively cheap, but they're very bulky just to use as a mute. I think they have a master level parameter controllable my MIDI. I guess I'll just mess with my spare GCX loop switcher, although I really wanted to sell that sucker, and it may turn out that (although a "neat" idea) programming vocal mutes is pointless minutia. Cool idea... but perhaps of limited practical value. :(
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by daniel.sneed »

Second idea, James, totally overkill too:
I've used my TC Gold Channel on stage to switch programs thru any of my MIDI foot controllers.
It accepts both line and mic levels.
Two channels in one rack space.

Extremely fine preamp, by the way, IMHO.

A great discontinued product, but some second-hand ones show up on the web, from time to time.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by James Steele »

daniel.sneed wrote:Second idea, James, totally overkill too:
I've used my TC Gold Channel on stage to switch programs thru any of my MIDI foot controllers.
It accepts both line and mic levels.
Two channels in one rack space.

Extremely fine preamp, by the way, IMHO.

A great discontinued product, but some second-hand ones show up on the web, from time to time.
Thanks, Daniel for the info. Yep... until someone makes something like I described, I'll have to be use some sort of overkill solution. I think the GCX will do it, but I'll have to use a direct box out the other side. I wish I had more electronics knowledge... would love to make one of these. I'd also have a footswitch that when depressed (either to mute/un-mute the mic input), it would also then ignore any MIDI coming in to the MIDI In, so if you decided to override mutes coming on from the sequencer, it wouldn't continue to toggle the state of the switch.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by daniel.sneed »

James Steele wrote:[...]but I'll have to use a direct box out the other side. I wish I had more electronics knowledge... [...]
To bring a line level to a mic level, a good down-step transformer is what I'd use first.
Say, 30kOhms input and 600ohms output. A magnetic shielded one preferably.
IMHO, an Easy and trustful solution.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by Dwetmaster »

Maybe you could do something with MOTU's Volta. Given that it tranform MIDI to CV.

Just thinking out loud.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by James Steele »

daniel.sneed wrote:
James Steele wrote:[...]but I'll have to use a direct box out the other side. I wish I had more electronics knowledge... [...]
To bring a line level to a mic level, a good down-step transformer is what I'd use first.
Say, 30kOhms input and 600ohms output. A magnetic shielded one preferably.
IMHO, an Easy and trustful solution.
A lot of FOH engineers can take line level over XLR connections. I know that's why they'll use direct boxes for directly connecting keyboards/synths, right?
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by daniel.sneed »

James Steele wrote:A lot of FOH engineers can take line level over XLR connections. I know that's why they'll use direct boxes for directly connecting keyboards/synths, right?
Of course, James, they are supposed to.
But I try to keep things as basic as possible, from the engineer point of view. Specially when I'm not sure who the engineer will be, and specially when it comes to vocals.
But, that's just me...
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by James Steele »

I hear you. I should be able to just say "This is line level" to them. For example, even if I used my wireless unit *without* any sort of muting device (which I've done before), when they connect an XLR cable to the back of my wireless receiver, it's still going to be line level at that point.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by daniel.sneed »

Of course, James, in a perfect world nothing could go wrong.
In our real world, nothing should either...

But in fact,
- some mixing desks only have global 48V.
- some mixing desks do not take line levels properly on XLR.
- these mixers exhibit balanced line level jack inputs. but some (unknown) sound men do not bring any balanced Fem-XLR to stereo Jack adaptor, to plug on the XLR snake end.
- in case they make soundchecks for several bands on the same day. When it's your turn to go on stage, they forget what is going where. XLR / Jack is just one of them.
- some (unknown) sound men bring very low grade di-box.
- and, yes, a few other craps...

But, of course, going on gig is still fun!
That's why I tend to keep each source at balanced mic level and 48V proof, even when no 48V is required.
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Re: MIDI controlled XLR mute box?

Post by James Steele »

Thanks for the info. I may have a fundamental misunderstanding of how direct boxes work then? Do they always step a line level signal down to mic level? I have a Sennheiser wireless that has an XLR output on the back. Do you mean that the XLR output on that is been lowered to mic level? I've done shows where I simply had a soundman plug into the back of the XLR on my wireless microphone receiver, and it was no big deal.
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