OT: Visiting the Southwest, looking for suggestions.

groove · Post by **groove** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:19 pm

Hello Nation,

This is way off-topic but I’m looking for some last-minute trip ideas from Southwesterner members of Motunation and others who know the region and love the outdoor.

My wife and I will be travelling this October for 3 weeks in our now annual Southwest hiking and outdoor trip. We are experienced hikers and tent campers and love to mix cultural activities as well.

It’s not our first time in the Southwest, we did numerous hikes in Yosemite, Sequoia, Death Valley, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Grand Canyon south rim, Sedona region, the Catalinas near Tuscon, The Arches. We horseback ride Monument Valley, were in Tuscon for the Dia de los muertos, swam in Canyon Lake, etc..

This time we are visiting parks and places in the northeast of Arizona and part of the southwest of Utah we missed on previous trips either because of their remoteness or because they are not the ones you visit on a first trip.

We’ll land and take our car in Las Vegas (the cheapest from Montreal) and so far we have book a guide and a horseback ride in Canyon de Chelly, Antelope Canyon, we’ll be in Grand Canyon North Rim and on our way back to Las Vegas to take our flight back to Montreal, we’ll be returning to Zion for The Narrows. Vermillion Cliff for the Wave is sold out, so this is for another year.

So, I’m looking for off-the-beaten-path must-see or do ideas around Lake Powell/Glen Canyon, Grand Staircase-Escalante be it a scenic place, a kayak or horseback idea, an historical place. Does Capitol Reef worth the trip for hiking, anyone visited the Five Mesas in Hopi territory, etc.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for your time and help.

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:23 pm

Meteor crater is pretty cool...

http://meteorcrater.com

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:10 pm

groove wrote:Hello Nation,

This is way off-topic but I’m looking for some last-minute trip ideas from Southwesterner members of Motunation and others who know the region and love the outdoor.

My wife and I will be travelling this October for 3 weeks in our now annual Southwest hiking and outdoor trip. We are experienced hikers and tent campers and love to mix cultural activities as well.

It’s not our first time in the Southwest, we did numerous hikes in Yosemite, Sequoia, Death Valley, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Grand Canyon south rim, Sedona region, the Catalinas near Tuscon, The Arches. We horseback ride Monument Valley, were in Tuscon for the Dia de los muertos, swam in Canyon Lake, etc..

This time we are visiting parks and places in the northeast of Arizona and part of the southwest of Utah we missed on previous trips either because of their remoteness or because they are not the ones you visit on a first trip.

We’ll land and take our car in Las Vegas (the cheapest from Montreal) and so far we have book a guide and a horseback ride in Canyon de Chelly, Antelope Canyon, we’ll be in Grand Canyon North Rim and on our way back to Las Vegas to take our flight back to Montreal, we’ll be returning to Zion for The Narrows. Vermillion Cliff for the Wave is sold out, so this is for another year.

So, I’m looking for off-the-beaten-path must-see or do ideas around Lake Powell/Glen Canyon, Grand Staircase-Escalante be it a scenic place, a kayak or horseback idea, an historical place. Does Capitol Reef worth the trip for hiking, anyone visited the Five Mesas in Hopi territory, etc.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for your time and help.

I'm a fan of the Hopi tribe, and I'm also a member of the Choctaw tribe (get the newspaper every month, go to PowWows, walk the Trail of Tears, and all that), so I thought I'd really like going to see 1st Mesa and 2nd Mesa, Hotevilla, and all that. Truth told, my son and I didn't really feel comfortable there. We were clearly outsiders, and this is not a tourist area. It's not set up to receive tourists or even offer them a drink. 1st Mesa is one of the oldest — if not THE oldest — continuously inhabited villages in North America, having been occupied over a thousand years, or something like that. But unless you have a friend there with whom you can go up and visit, you really can't go see it. I guess if you wanted to be a jerk, you could do that, and I'm sure people do, but we just viewed it from a distance, which is pretty much like looking at a rocky cliff, as the structures blend in with the rocks, and it's not close to the road. I don't like making people feel like they're in a fishbowl.

However, I did buy a Hopi-made silver key ring and some earrings at a shop near Hotevilla. My avatar is actually a scan of that key ring. I've used it since the year 2000. You may enjoy just driving through the area, but unless you are very knowledgeable on Hopi geography and history, most of it will look like barren wasteland. Still, that's part of the allure of the Southwest.

Red Rock Canyon is west of Las Vegas. It's a place where you can spend a few hours or a day. I used to go there every morning when I was working in Las Vegas, and I would hike or draw. On days off, I sometimes spent entire days out there. It's a wonderful area if you like to get up close and tramp around a little, looking for springs and agave roasting pits. There is a four-wheel drive road (an old wagon road) that splits off the main loop at a trail with a name like Lost Creek or something. You can see it in Apple or Google Maps. It's got switchbacks and narrow cliffs and incredible views as it goes up and over the mountain range on the west side of the park. It comes down and meets a paved road. Make a left and it will take you to the highway to Pahrump. Go on to Pahrump for some western flavor in rural Nevada. You're just a skip and a jump from Death Valley (as the crow flies), but if you continue on back north, you'll intersect a main highway near the entrance to Area 51, the top-secret airbase in all the UFO conspiracy theories. Also, you will be very close to a nuclear test range where they blew up hundreds of nukes back in the 1950s. Make a right on that highway to go back to Las Vegas from the north. By the way, in rural Nevada you'll pass through little tiny towns at night and you might notice the unusually large number of airports, based on all the airport beacons you see. Turns out, those aren't airports. I think you can imagine what kind of sirens might be using a beacon to lure lonely guys to shabby looking bars in the middle of the night in rural Nevada. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if that's your thing.

If you are in Phoenix, take Shea Boulevard east to Fountain Hills. The town itself is kind of nice to see, but it's just a pit stop on the way to Payson, AZ by way of the Beeline Highway. The Beeline can be quite crowded on holidays, so best do it on a weekday. In summer, you may go from 112 degrees to 68 degrees in a few hours. From Payson, go east to the Mogollon Rim, a wonderful natural ledge where a seashore once dropped off the continental rim. Take food and stove and sit up there and watch the sunset while eating Boy Scout Stew or something. Many times I've bought food in Payson, and aluminum foil, then gone up to the rim, built a fire, cut up meat, potatoes, corn, onions, bell peppers, mushrooms etc., and wrapped single servings in foil, sealed them, and popped them in the coals. Food never tasted so good as when watching the sun set at 65° while eating a hot dinner and enjoying the fact that your friends are sweating in the 112° dryness of Phoenix, Scottsdale or Fountain Hills.

If you're in Scottsdale, you may want to find Z-Tejas, which used to be my favorite hangout. I used to eat there almost every day, both in Scottsdale and in Las Vegas (Summerlin). Downtown Scottsdale there is an "Old Town" where you will find lots of art galleries if you're into that. I love hopping from gallery to gallery, seeing all the art on sale. To rub elbows with the posh crowd, there is the Phoenician Hotel, at Camelback Mountain, which has a bar called the Thirsty Camel. Let valet park your car. It's worth a visit.

Like to skate? Board or inlines, there's a skate park at Macdowell street bridge between Hayden and Miller. It's connected to a trail on which it's pretty easy to do a 35 mile round trip. There are some concrete works for jumping, grinding, and general skating. Also some stairs that are fun to skate.

You may have been to Arches National Park in Southern Utah, but it's certainly one of the best places to see Wile E. Coyote style scenery, and lots of it. Beautiful area, and its near the grand Canyon and the Petrified forest. Not far from Moab Utah is a trail down into a little canyon where you will find the Great Gallery, location of probably the finest petroglyphs in North America. Some estimate them to be over 7000 years old. The former view was that they were only maybe a thousand years old. I tend to believe they were much older, maybe even 7000 years.

Tehachapi Loop: between Tehachapi, California (northeast of Los Angeles) and Bakersfield, is the location of some of the most amazing railroading in the Southwest; some would say the world, but I've also been to Colorado, Utah, Montana, and British Columbia, not to mention North Carolina, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Chicago! Still, Tehachapi Loop is one of the wonders of the railroads, and is not to be missed if you're in the area. Best in early morning or late evening, the trains are usually a quarter to half hour apart.

Sedona, Arizona is a popular spot, but frankly I never saw the attraction to it, other than some expensive resorts and a nice creek. South of there, though, are some mining towns like Jerome and... [I can't remember some of the names] where you can find some very interesting history and beautiful scenery.

If you want to make a trip to see ruins, They're all over that area. Google something like Anasazi Ruins of the Southwest and see all that come up. Chaco Canyon, various Great Houses, Wupatki, Hovenweep Monument, Mesa Verde, and that's just getting started with some of the more popular ones. Of course, you can look down almost anywhere in the SW deserts and find shards of pottery. Indians like for you to leave it there. It's very hard not to pick up a piece or two. While I always left it where I found it, someone gave me a lot of pieces of it. I keep one on my desk that reminds me that people were being creative with utilitarian objects for thousands of years, all around us.

Of course, I've left out the BIG attractions like the Grand Canyon, or some of the big parks along the Grand Escarpment, but everyone knows those. Zion, Bryce Canyon, Mount Humphries (near Flagstaff), or in California, Death Valley. Also in California, Salton Sea (of no interest to me), or Mono Lake, Yosemite, Feather River Canyon (great railroading here, too).

Ok, that's about it for me unless I start Googling stuff. I know I've left out a lot, but the SouthWest is huge. Lots to see, lots to miss and save for next time. I've enjoyed it extensively for the past 30 years, and periodically all my life. It's my favorite place on earth. I hope you can piece together a great trip! Let me know if I can be of help.

Shooshie

crduval · Post by **crduval** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:39 am

My wife and I hiked Capitol Reef years ago and liked it a lot. It was far less crowded than other parks, and I remember a field of these odd black round rocks.

If you haven't hiked canyonlamds (near Moab) I'd recommend it - just bring plenty if water. We found some cool petroglyphs there. We did get lost in there for a while so pay attention - it's a big park and very desolate. There is also dead horse point near there that is pretty neat. And Arches is one of my favorite places in earth - although you said you were there, I don't think I could miss it if I was in the area again

Have fun, October should be a great time to be out in the west.

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magicd · Post by **magicd** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:27 am

I've been out to that area many times now. Perhaps my favorite place in the world. In late October I have family coming over from the UK and seven of us are going to take a tour. My 16 year old nephew has never been out of the UK and I can't wait to show him around.

Unfortunately there just isn't enough time to see it all and really take it in. That's why I keep going back.

For this years trip we'll land in Las Vegas and rent a camper. First stop is the Grand Canyon South rim. From there we'll hit Page and Antelope Canyon. Then up to Bryce, back down through Zion and then out of Vegas again.

If you haven't done the Rockies, that's worth a visit. Do the Million Dollar Highway and stop in Ouray. Pagosa Springs is very nice.

I have driven up through Capitol Reef and it is spectacular. You've also got Monument Valley and the Mexican Hat area. We took a trip one year that included Canyon De Chelly. Man it gets HOT down there!

You really can't go wrong. Every picture you take is a post card. Enjoy!

Dave

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:39 pm

magicd wrote:If you haven't done the Rockies, that's worth a visit. Do the Million Dollar Highway and stop in Ouray. Pagosa Springs is very nice.

I think SW Colorado may be my favorite part of the state. The mountains aren't as spectacular as northern/central Colorado (Estes Park, Aspen, Maroon Bells, Leadville, Cripple Creek, etc.) but the views are broader and more majestic. There's the Royal Gorge, which used to be on passenger train routes if you took the Denver & Rio Grande Western, and the canyon that it's in is beautiful in the fall.

There's a lower mountain range in Southern Colorado that is just picture-postcard perfect. I forget the name... seems like it's something like the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. Keep on going west and you'll reach Durango, which is worth seeing in its own right. You can ride the narrow gauge steam railroad to Silverton, or just parallel it on the "Million Dollar Highway" (from the days when that phrase would make your jaw drop) and photograph the train where the highway is near enough. South from Durango, you'll find the road to Mesa Verde. There are ruins, and there are ruins. Chaco Canyon, Canyon de Chelly, and Wupatki are the kind of ruins that make you think. What's left is in pretty bad shape, but you can see what once must have been amazing settlements with careful planning, division of labor and nice living spaces. But Mesa Verde is different. It's almost as though time stopped there. I think they've rebuilt some of the walls that collapsed, though most have survived intact, more or less. It's also a lot cooler (temperature) than most of the other ruins.

If wilderness camping is your thing, Pecos Wilderness north of Santa Fe is a fantastic place to hike and camp. I've spent a couple of weeks in there on two different occasions. In the fall it is absolutely beautiful, with large stands of Aspen. (Populous Tremuloidis, for they rustle like crowds of people in Times Square when the wind blows.) Of course, aspen are common all over the southwest except for the actual deserts.

Wish I were going with you. All this talk is making me really miss being out in the canyons, mountains, forests, agaves, saguaros, and so forth.

Shooshie

buzzsmith · Post by **buzzsmith** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:55 pm

Yeah, Shooshie, as I type this Roxanne and Scott are motorcycling the Silverton-Durango Ouray-Telluride area.

<jealous>

Buzzy

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Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:09 pm

buzzsmith wrote:Yeah, Shooshie, as I type this Roxanne and Scott are motorcycling the Silverton-Durango Ouray-Telluride area.

<jealous>

Buzzy

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Scott always knew how to make Roxanne smile. I'll bet she's smiling big time right now... except for the bugs. Smiling inside, at least.

I'd really like to take a trip out there. It's been several years now. After a while it's like withdrawal or something.

Shoosh

buzzsmith · Post by **buzzsmith** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:35 pm

It's been too long for us, too.

Need a Rocky Mountain fix...

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philbrown · Post by **philbrown** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:44 am

I don't have any suggestions, but glad I live in this beautiful place. We're at the southern edge of 3 million+ acres of Natl. Forest and wilderness. Still haven't seen all the places mentioned above though, but we're making some plans to do so. Sedona is a must-see IMO, although the town itself is kind of tourist-trapy. Taos is a cool little town to visit along with the loop (Enchanted Loop? I forget what they call it, but it's in all the travel books). Most people never make it down here where we are, but if you do, the drive trough Emory pass (from I-10 Truth or Consequences west to Silver City) is a nice mountain drive. Also west of here through Alpine and through the White Mountains in east AZ is really pretty too (but slow driving). I guess I did have suggestions.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:47 am

philbrown wrote:I don't have any suggestions, but glad I live in this beautiful place. We're at the southern edge of 3 million+ acres of Natl. Forest and wilderness. Still haven't seen all the places mentioned above though, but we're making some plans to do so. Sedona is a must-see IMO, although the town itself is kind of tourist-trapy. Taos is a cool little town to visit along with the loop (Enchanted Loop? I forget what they call it, but it's in all the travel books). Most people never make it down here where we are, but if you do, the drive trough Emory pass (from I-10 Truth or Consequences west to Silver City) is a nice mountain drive. Also west of here through Alpine and through the White Mountains in east AZ is really pretty too (but slow driving). I guess I did have suggestions.

Man, Eastern Arizona is beautiful. AZ is the state that got some of everything. There are even parts of it that are butt-ugly like Texas. I could spend years traveling in that state alone. If you ever get "stuck" in a state, make it Arizona, though New Mexico is not bad at all, even with such illustrious neighbors. (by that, I mean Texas, of course!

) Also, New Mexico has the VLA radio telescope where they filmed Contact, just out west of Socorro, right there along the highway. Blows your mind if you're not expecting it.

Shooshie

philbrown · Post by **philbrown** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:54 am

Shooshie wrote:
Man, Eastern Arizona is beautiful. AZ is the state that got some of everything. There are even parts of it that are butt-ugly like Texas. I could spend years traveling in that state alone. If you ever get "stuck" in a state, make it Arizona, though New Mexico is not bad at all, even with such illustrious neighbors. (by that, I mean Texas, of course! )

Shooshie

AZ is stereotyped with saguaro cactus bleak desert but there is so much more. Saguaro's are cool too, though! We lived on the south side of Tucson for a while and that was some cool scenery, hillsides naturally covered with saguaro cactus with rocky pointy mountains against the lavender/orange sunset... I can see it now...

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:09 pm

philbrown wrote:AZ is stereotyped with saguaro cactus bleak desert but there is so much more. Saguaro's are cool too, though! We lived on the south side of Tucson for a while and that was some cool scenery, hillsides naturally covered with saguaro cactus with rocky pointy mountains against the lavender/orange sunset... I can see it now...

I absolutely adore the Sonoran Desert and all the Saguaros. I could write a book about that, but I won't start it here. I think I've said enough! But for one thing: the golden hour. In the evening, before sunset, there is about an hour during which the saguaros light up. They appear gold/orange in the sunlight, and it just adds to the mystique of these ancient beings.

groove · Post by **groove** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:43 pm

Thank you so much all for the generous replies.

This is why I love this forum; the generosity, the friendly replies, the helpful tips and the genuine camaraderie of its community astound me every time I log in. I so would like to be more active in this forum but, unfortunately, writing in English quickly is clearly, beyond my best intentions and skills!

Anyway,
Meteor crater is added to the list on our way from Flagstaff to Canyon de Chelly. (Thanks MLC).

Flagstaff is our first stop thanks to a great coffee roaster we found last year. Even in a hiking trip, we need our morning espresso! I remember 3 years ago, I've been extensively searched by customs agents because I had a kilo of ground coffee neatly sealed and wrapped in my backpack. So now the first thing we do on landing is find a good coffee roaster. Sorry Starbuck, you're not in the game!

I'm glad to read that Capitol Reef has great hiking trail, we will head north for it. (Thanks crduval)

Thanks Shooshie for the tip about the Hopi. Although I read a lot about their fascinating spiritual world and enjoyed a wonderful exhibition at The Heard Museum in Phoenix last year, I have the same reserve you have on being intrusive and an outsider. At the same time, if, by visiting and stopping at an art shop, it's helping the community, why not? We’ll see how we feel on our way back from Chelly to Page. Btw Shooshie, if I ever go to Dallas, you'll have no choice but be my guide!!

crduval and Shooshie, you convinced us to stop in Canyonland for a while; so many hikes there, it is mind-boggling!

philbrow, I envy you to live near such wonders. I agree with you, I enjoyed the hikes around Sedona. We only had time for Bear Mountain - wonderful - Boynton Canyon and Cathedral, but we enjoyed the "Little Grand Canyon" feel of the place.

macgicd, we’ll almost do the same trip; Las Vegas, then east, Antelope, south of Utah, Zion and back to LV but 3 weeks apart. I’ll leave a couple of unicorn clues here and there for you to catch! Your nephew will have a blast!

Cheers!

philbrown · Post by **philbrown** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:25 am

It's out of the way, but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the Chiricahua National Monument in Southern AZ. Also Bisbee is a cool quirky little town down that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiricahua ... l_Monument

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