Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

[offtheroad]

I've been only just learning Logic and was wondering the thoughts on Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

[FMiguelez]

I'm not sure what kind of answers you expect from MOTUNation. We may be a little biased, you know?

But I can tell you DP kicks some serious butt!

If you use lots of loops and produce EDM exclusively, Logic might be a better tool for you. Otherwise, I think DP is better in every other aspect.

DP is even better if you complement it with MOTU's sampler MachFive. That is a very powerful combo!!

We have some members here who use both apps, so hopefully they'll chime in.

[offtheroad]

Thanks

[billf]

Logic X is a top notch DAW, as is DP 8. I use both, but primarily use DP. If you're already on Logic, and thinking about another DAW, it would help to understand why so we can help you explore the options.

[bayswater]

I use both regularly mainly because people I work with use Logic, so it's hard to avoid. I use DP if I have a simple choice, but from watching how others work, I think the preference depends a lot on what sort of work you're doing, and which one can most easily and quickly do what you want.

A few things I experience on a regular basis:
- Logic is cheap and everywhere, everyone can do something with it, and third party stuff will work with it more often (with the exceptions noted below).
- Logic's included sounds and players, especially EXS24 can be very quick and convenient if you want simple tunes that sound slick. I think the sounds are excellent given the price.
- Logic makes it easier to set up VIs although that comes with some limitations.
- Logic is easier to deal with if you're doing a lot of bounces.
- DP is more stable, less buggy. That could change with the next Logic X.x update, but for now, whenever I use Logic, there will be something that doesn't work as expected, and you just don't know if it's a user error or a bug.
- DP works with Windows and VST.
- DP has an elegant means of handling multiple sequences. Logic has some clunky workarounds.
- MOTU supports DP better than Apple supports Logic. I doubt anyone at Apple has ever helped a Logic user with a problem. You're pretty much dependent on experienced users on forums.
- There are no DAWs that do a really good job of conforming a tempo map to freely recorded music, but DP gives a more predictable result if the music is reasonably well played.
- Despite big improvements with Logic X, the user interface is still nowhere as good and as flexible as DPs. That matters a lot if you're working with it all day.
- You can live a long and happy life with DP, without ever opening a @#$%^*' Environment Window.

[Shooshie]

The MIDI editing tools in DP are superior, IMO. I've heard people argue the opposite, so there may be ways of working in which Logic is better suited, but for musicians who are trying to get phrases to sound musical and ensembles to gel, DP's tools are indispensable.

If you record free performances and then adjust the bar lines and beats to line up with the performance, DP is more precise and easier to work with. I searched for a year for the method I was looking for in Logic, finally realizing that it's just not there. What is there (Logic's beat adjustment) is barely satisfactory, but I'd hate to use it every day.

Logic blurs the distinction between tracks. In Logic, a single track can be Instrument, MIDI, and Audio all in one. That makes it simple for the first time user to play something and hear a sound, but it complicates advanced templates, at least for me. In DP, I can put my instruments in a "V-Rack," which is like having a rack of gear that behaves the way MIDI racks always behaved. I can route their output to audio tracks or Aux tracks, and I can route several MIDI tracks to any instrument. That's four kinds of tracks, and I prefer to group them in certain ways and route them in certain ways, and it just works better if those stay separate. There may be ways around it in Logic if you want separate tracks, but I don't know what they are. I've been working in MIDI and audio for a long, long time, so maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I do NOT like working with tracks in Logic.

DP is more likely to have a lot of information editable in a single window, such that multiple tracks, notes, and controllers can be compared and aligned. To accomplish the same tasks in Logic sometimes requires opening more windows which may not line up the information between them. There are 4 windows in DP that I keep open at all times: the Tracks Overview, Sequence Editor, MIDI Graphic Editor, and the Mixing Board. I keep these at full screen, each in their own "desktop" or "Space," using Mission Control to move them there at the beginning of a session. While I sometimes use other windows for special purposes, 99.99% of my work consists of those four windows. They are interrelated: a selection in one selects the same data in all, and an edit in one is reflected in all. Essential Mixing Board controls are duplicated in the edit windows to prevent having to change windows to record enable, solo, adjust volume, and other things. This is very handy, as is having a channel strip available in the main Consolidated Window.

DP uses Themes, including 3rd party themes such as AmpGUI mods. That means that with a click you can change the entire look of DP's interface. Light, Dark, red, green, neon, subdued... whatever you want is just a click away. Very nice for changing the look for on-stage use. I don't know if Apple has added that to Logic.

DP has a search feature that I've never seen anywhere else. It helps to find certain data quickly, and you can store your searches for re-use.

Neither app is perfect, and a competent Logic user could probably make a list of things that Logic does "better" than DP, but in the end it comes down to preferences, and DP simply does things in a way that is familiar and comfortable to me, thus my bias. But some of the things above are real deal-killers for Logic and me. The two apps are very different, though. Switching between them is not like switching cameras or word processors. They are completely different ways of working.

It's probably significant to mention that a lot of film score composers would be lost without DP. It is one of the oldest DAWs for film scoring, and has co-developed along with the industry. DP is excellent for syncing up with external hardware such as cameras, mixing boards, ADAT machines, and other digital devices. Its SysEx hex editor makes it fairly easy to write cues for lighting devices, machines, and any other MIDI Show Control devices.

One other important thing for me, probably less so for someone starting out, is that I can open files all the way back to 1986 or 1987, when I first started using DP. Very few applications can boast that kind of retro-compatibility. And I have tons of files dating back that far. Why sequence something again if I did it 25 years ago?

It's safe to say that which ever you choose, you'll still be learning new tricks after 10 years of using it. They are deep apps with lots of options. Good luck in figuring out what you want.

Shooshie

[stubbsonic]

What a fascinating thread. OfftheRoad got the deluxe treatment by some of the boards powerhouse DP users.

Perhaps when folks now search "Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro" they'll be directed to this great info.

Thanks, all.

[billf]

DP uses Themes, including 3rd party themes such as AmpGUI mods. That means that with a click you can change the entire look of DP's interface. Light, Dark, red, green, neon, subdued... whatever you want is just a click away. Very nice for changing the look for on-stage use. I don't know if Apple has added that to Logic.

It is possible to change themes in Logic, and there are quite a few custom themes for Logic X out there. However, it is no where as straight forward as in DP, nor is it "officially" supported by Apple.

To do so in Logic X, you need to locate the program in the Applications folder, go into Package Contents then navigate to Contents > >Frameworks > >MAResources.framework > >Versions > A

There is a folder there called Resources. You have to back this up, then replace it with your new theme.

It is MUCH easier (and safer) with the DP 8 process. With Logic X, if you're not careful in which folders you replace, you can mess up the entire app.

[Shooshie]

DP uses Themes, including 3rd party themes such as AmpGUI mods. That means that with a click you can change the entire look of DP's interface. Light, Dark, red, green, neon, subdued... whatever you want is just a click away. Very nice for changing the look for on-stage use. I don't know if Apple has added that to Logic.

It is possible to change themes in Logic, and there are quite a few custom themes for Logic X out there. However, it is no where as straight forward as in DP, nor is it "officially" supported by Apple.

To do so in Logic X, you need to locate the program in the Applications folder, go into Package Contents then navigate to Contents > >Frameworks > >MAResources.framework > >Versions > A

There is a folder there called Resources. You have to back this up, then replace it with your new theme.

It is MUCH easier (and safer) with the DP 8 process. With Logic X, if you're not careful in which folders you replace, you can mess up the entire app.

That's the way it started out in DP. After version 6, Andy's (AmpGUI's) mods had created such a stir that people were buying DP just to be able to use them. MOTU saw their sales spiking, and saw that it was corresponding with the traffic in this forum, so they made it very easy to install Andy's themes. After seeing the success Andy was having with the themes (not to mention seeing how great it made DP look), MOTU decided to make it an actual feature. Now it couldn't be easier. It's simply a matter of dragging a the theme into DP's themes folder.

But it all started the same way that you described. If Apple made Logic look bad enough that everyone wanted to change it, the same process might take place there, too, though Apple is notoriously less inclined to take design suggestions from mere users.

Shoosh

[billf]

DP uses Themes, including 3rd party themes such as AmpGUI mods. That means that with a click you can change the entire look of DP's interface. Light, Dark, red, green, neon, subdued... whatever you want is just a click away. Very nice for changing the look for on-stage use. I don't know if Apple has added that to Logic.

It is possible to change themes in Logic, and there are quite a few custom themes for Logic X out there. However, it is no where as straight forward as in DP, nor is it "officially" supported by Apple.

To do so in Logic X, you need to locate the program in the Applications folder, go into Package Contents then navigate to Contents > >Frameworks > >MAResources.framework > >Versions > A

There is a folder there called Resources. You have to back this up, then replace it with your new theme.

It is MUCH easier (and safer) with the DP 8 process. With Logic X, if you're not careful in which folders you replace, you can mess up the entire app.

That's the way it started out in DP. After version 6, Andy's (AmpGUI's) mods had created such a stir that people were buying DP just to be able to use them. MOTU saw their sales spiking, and saw that it was corresponding with the traffic in this forum, so they made it very easy to install Andy's themes. After seeing the success Andy was having with the themes (not to mention seeing how great it made DP look), MOTU decided to make it an actual feature. Now it couldn't be easier. It's simply a matter of dragging a the theme into DP's themes folder.

But it all started the same way that you described. If Apple made Logic look bad enough that everyone wanted to change it, the same process might take place there, too, though Apple is notoriously less inclined to take design suggestions from mere users.

Shoosh

Correct on all fronts. There does appear quite a substantial base of Logic users who use alternate themes, and it would probably be higher if the process were easier.

One other point about UI set ups between the two DAW's, I think DP is more elegant with window options and switching windows, especially when using Consolidated windows (which is more of a direct comparison).

If there is one area where DP could use improvement in UI, it's with font options. Sometimes they are quite small, almost too small. It's not a showstopper, but hopefully something that gets some attention in their next release.

[Shooshie]

If there is one area where DP could use improvement in UI, it's with font options. Sometimes they are quite small, almost too small. It's not a showstopper, but hopefully something that gets some attention in their next release.

It's only a band-aid, I suppose, but the Tracks Overview Window actually allows vertical adjustment of the size of the tracks, and the font size of the track actually changes with the height of the track. At least... I think it does. I haven't changed it since testing that feature when it came out, but that's how I remember it.

Access to the display fonts would be nice, though I can see why they don't want to do that. Interface design includes fonts, and I'm sure some people would be using Alley Cat or Fajita fonts and wondering why MOTU didn't design the windows to fit them. But at least it would be nice to have access to the font size. The Tracks Overview is a nice start in that direction.

Shooshie

[bayswater]

font size.

Maybe font size. Maybe not. If you put Logic and DP side by side, the tiny font in Logic is, if anything smaller, but still more legible than the tiny font in DP. For example, compare the inspector in Logic with the Track Overview column headers in DP. Some changes in the font design would probably help.

[billf]

font size.

Maybe font size. Maybe not. If you put Logic and DP side by side, the tiny font in Logic is, if anything smaller, but still more legible than the tiny font in DP. For example, compare the inspector in Logic with the Track Overview column headers in DP. Some changes in the font design would probably help.

Right, it's not always the font size that matters as much as the actual font type.

[wvandyck]

Some additional DP advantages:
- A resizable Meter Bridge. I like’m tall and wide (meters that is). Logic doesn't have a meter bridge. It gives you fixed short and narrow meters on it's mixer.
- Logic's Flex Pitch has really handy Hot Spots to manipulate pitch parameters. But, DP gives you greater flexibility as you can freely “draw” on pitch segments with the pencil tool. As a guitar player, I first tested this out by drawing a triangle shape over some not-so-well-executed finger vibrato notes. The results were "unholy"
- DP gives you the best set of automation drawing tools. Period!
- Access to the OSX Audio MIDI Setup utility from within DP.
- Cursor position read out
- Ditto the capacity to use both AU and VST plug-ins.
- The option to switch Themes is significant on many levels: vision, mood, lighting environment

[mikehalloran]

Ditto the capacity to use both AU and VST plug-ins

For many users, the inability to use VSTs in Logic is the deal killer. OTOH, the Logic/Final Cut/GarageBand user base is probably what keeps AU viable with developers.

I own Logic Pro 9 and X so that I can open other people's projects, export the sound files and MIDI data, import them into DP and get the work done.