Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

[James Steele]

Are we talking about the conversion of mono/poly pressure? I know I'm pretty sure I've recorded both with success and DP has played it back. I think I've even edited it. My old EPS-16+ supported poly-pressure I think. Of course I had the module version, so maybe not if my old Oberheim XK didn't support it. I know the keyboard version of the EPS-16+ had poly-pressure.

[mhschmieder]

Yes, I thought I was clear that I was talking about converting monopressure (not a CC) to a MIDI CC, but I must have used terminology that didn't connect with some people. DP does allow for filtering it, but I rarely turn it off.

Most VI's and sample libraries do not work with monopressure, so it often needs to be converted to something they do recognize, such as modulation, expression, breath control, or wind control.

In DP, you can convert one CC to another, but cannot convert non-CC's to CC's. This is where Logic really shines. I think it's the only Mac DAW that offers this capability. And since it's Logic, they don't do it the best way, so it would be great if DP added this capability to their MIDI commands.

As for DP's ability to work with monopressure, that isn't in question, but as for polypressure, I don't have any devices capable of that so haven't gotten around to checking. Theoretically polypressure would be even better when doing orchestral instruments, but I generally re-do individual lines later anyway so am not sure I would ever need it.

I consider monopressure to be far and away the most reactive control available for keyboards -- almost on a par with breath/wind control.

[reedster]

In DP, you can convert one CC to another, but cannot convert non-CC's to CC's.

In 9.1 with Reassign Continuous Data, Mono or Poly Pressure from/to CC works as expected.

[Shooshie]

In DP, you can convert one CC to another, but cannot convert non-CC's to CC's.

In 9.1 with Reassign Continuous Data, Mono or Poly Pressure from/to CC works as expected.

Wasn't that always the case? I just don't remember NOT being able to do that.

[Shooshie]

My closing comment on Digital Performer vs. Logic Pro X.

I haven't used Logic Pro X. I own Logic 8 studio, and a couple of upgrades. I used it extensively for a while to learn it, but in the end, I found DP to be superior in all the things that I normally work with. Others argued, but I sat there and used them both and there was no question which was my preference: DP.

Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has special needs, preferences, and wishes. I read criticisms of DP every day, but to completely explain why I prefer DP would take pages and pages of point/counterpoint, and that just doesn't interest me anymore. If anyone likes Logic, power to them. Go use it. If you like DP, use that. But if you like Logic and you want ME to like what you like, save your breath. It ain't gonna happen. I'm a pro at what I do, and I know it backward and forward. I've looked at the other side, gotten my feet wet, searched around, found people to tutor me in case I was missing something important, and in the end I had to conclude that Logic would slow me down radically if I were to stay with it. It just wasn't good for what I do.

And that's that.

Shooshie

[mhschmieder]

Sorry for the red herring -- I've been working so hard for so long without a break, that trying to write about things strictly from memory without visual cues leads to mistakes.

Of course mono-pressure can be converted to CC's in DP; my fault for not walking through a project to remind myself of specific workflow.

The thing I can't do in DP that I can do in Logic, is convert Note On Velocity to mono-pressure or some MIDI CC of choice. This is critical when dealing with legacy projects that were recorded with inadequate keyboards that either don't transmit dependable and smooth mono-pressure or discard/filter such data (even if they can use it internally).

For new projects, it is hardly of concern, as I have excellent mono-pressure support on my Minimoog Voyager and my Arturia MIDI Controller. Or I can grab my Yamaha WX5 for even better control.

I apologize for the misdirection. The real problem is that most Keyboard Workstations have historically used MIDI Note On Velocity "consistently" across all instrument categories, presuming the player is clueless about most instruments and how they are played. I guess for many, live performance is easier this way, but I'm suspicious because it smells of catering to players who (horrors!) play block chords.

As I didn't buy my first home computer until the early to mid 2000's, and due to the first one being a useless G4 iMac (I bought my MacPro at the end of 2010), I have a LOT of projects that don't have any MIDI controller data, mono-pressure, etc., but have enough nuances that they would be hard to re-do -- see, I mostly do ethnic genres, jazz, and classical vs. rock/pop. Lots of complex rhythms and articulations. But I'm getting better at "faking" it via MIDI editing. Most people are fooled by my work by now. Sure takes a lot of time though...

So, Logic helps in that I can mostly salvage the heart and soul of an old performance and reassign to Sample Modeling and the like (otherwise I get full-volume on every note, no dynamics at all, and overly-strident playing as a result).

[reedster]

convert Note On Velocity to mono-pressure or some MIDI CC of choice

for that job consider DP's console.

[Shooshie]

I've done it in the custom console (Note ON to MIDI CC), but it is hard to do. Or it was. I don't know if they've made it any easier. I have asked for them to do that several times, but I have no idea if they've done it. The reason it's so hard, is because note-on is linked to the attack of notes. CC's are independent of notes, so unless one strikes at exactly the time of a Note ON, it's not going to get converted. There should be a way to do it, though, and maybe they've come up with it. I got it to work years ago, but it took all night, and still was not very effective.

Shooshie

[mhschmieder]

Oh, I didn't know about that Console trick; I'll give that a try. Considering what a PITA it is to go through this in Logic, and then have to delete unwanted "extras" before merging with the main MIDI, it may be easier.

Good point about timing of CC's vs. notes. It's something that people like VSL don't document very well. Actually, hardly anyone does. I try to experiment to judge by results, but don't reach conclusive answers.

Then there's the issue of the engine (whether VI Pro, DP, or what have you) being able to process quickly enough to "make the connection" between a note and a CC, as well as whether a simultaneous event, one slightly before, or one slightly after, is REQUIRED in order to get the proper interpretation.

Hmm, do I smell evidence that "MIDI is outdated"? Of course it is. But no true standard has come along to replace it yet.

Perhaps as more and more vendors experiment with ways of getting natural phrasing and expression, dynamics, etc., we'll see some sort of consensus emerge about how to standardize things in a way that works well for all genres and instruments vs. the ones MIDI was originally envisioned to cover.

[dewdman42]

You might be able to figure out a way to solve your monopressure dilemna in DP by using bluecataudio's scripting plugin, which can be used to do a lot of fancy stuff, including writing scripts that translate MIDI on the fly.

http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Pr ... ugNScript/

[mhschmieder]

Hmm, I think the Blue Cat stuff is different from the stuff I tried to download earlier that was theoretically cross-platform but seemed very unhappy on Macs (I tried that before deciding to buy Logic).

I was originally going to re-track my Alchemy stuff from Logic but decided not to. Too much trouble, and I'm happy enough with how they sound now, even if supposedly the new version is better in terms of audio quality, filters, etc. I figure it's more of a future-proof thing in case my Alchemy plug-in ever stops working. All of my libraries are seen by Alchemy's Logic version.

[dewdman42]

the bluecat plugin is relatively new, maybe a year or two ago it came out. obviously, in order to use it you have to learn their script language, but for your simple task the author would probably help you out, he's usually pretty friendly that way. One nice thing, the plugin comes in every plugin format you could imagine needing, including VST, AU, mac or pc...and even comes in au-midifx for logic and mainstage MIDI plugin slot.

If you're ok with the timing issues of looping MIDI out to another app and back into DP through IAC, then there is also this:

http://www.bewaryprods.com/software/pro ... sMIDIfier/

and MIDI pipe also has some abilities to do some of this kind of thing....

anyway, digressing a bit, just giving you some ideas to solve your issue without having to resort to LPX just for that. I happen to like LPX for a lot of different reasons...and I go back and forth between LPX and DP...I reckon I will continue using them both at times for years to come.

[mhschmieder]

Thanks. It really isn't off-topic at all, because usually when comparisons to other DAW's come up on this forum, it's in the context of "I use this other DAW for this one feature that DP doesn't have".

[James Steele]

The thing I can't do in DP that I can do in Logic, is convert Note On Velocity to mono-pressure or some MIDI CC of choice. This is critical when dealing with legacy projects that were recorded with inadequate keyboards that either don't transmit dependable and smooth mono-pressure or discard/filter such data (even if they can use it internally).

I'm not sure if this would be of use to you or not, but I was watching Blue Cat Audio's video on their "Remote Control" plug-in and wondering if perhaps it could be coerced into doing what you need here?

http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Pr ... teControl/

[dewdman42]

if not, they have a scripting plugin that can almost for sure do it