Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

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dewdman42
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by dewdman42 »

and look, I don't really want to try to troubleshoot Logic here, that's not the point. I did try several different Logic forums already to figure all this out. Its a dead end...Logic's MIDI routing is simply cumbersome at best and unless someone can present a solution otherwise...is limited with the single sequencer port. I have noted some things I like about Logic that I wish DP was better. This particular area, DP wins. I think people are easily misled into thinking Logic must be more flexible because of the fancy looking cables you can draw in the environment...but that is just graphics for an old school and limited MIDI routing matrix which is not actually that flexible after all, but its true that in Logic the transformer object is very powerful and with some ingenuity you can build some interesting environments there, but these days you could do much more stuff, and much more easily with a MIDI script plugin...so its kind of a moot point, though a MIDI script plugin would also be difficult to record the output of in Logic...so doh...more MIDI routing limitation..have to loopback through IAC for that too I guess, and then run into more MIDI routing headaches that way too.
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bayswater
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by bayswater »

Just suggesting that if you try cabling from the port you want in the physical input directly to the object you want to receive MIDI only from that port. Probably the same thing Michael C had in mind.
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Michael Canavan
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by Michael Canavan »

bayswater wrote:Just suggesting that if you try cabling from the port you want in the physical input directly to the object you want to receive MIDI only from that port. Probably the same thing Michael C had in mind.
Sort of, with Logic you first set up the Physical Input to send from the ports you want to the Sequencer input, then you create MIDI objects that receive from those ports. Notice the Port setting in the MIDI instrument objects pic. You do this with hardware synths and FX, as well as all your controller keyboards. You don't have to directly insert if between the sequencer input and physical input.
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Michael Canavan
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by Michael Canavan »

Shooshie wrote:
Michael Canavan wrote:So a user who first discovers DP who may have used Logic or Cubase etc. will try to set up a split keyboard in DP to control two soft synths in different ranges on the keyboard and use the transport controls with no luck at all.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I've done this many times. What's supposed to not work? I've got such setups saved for quick return to them.

I must be missing something, because that sentence just doesn't make sense to me.

Shoosh
Different controller keyboards use different protocols. My Novation uses HUI so it's transport works just fine, I hit play and the sequencer plays etc. With AKAI and Arturia they use MMC, and DP cannot read their transports, because MOTU use MIDI interfaces to work out MMC with DP from what I can tell? which doesn't work over AKAI controllers USB port...
Split keyboards are only possible in hardware with DP, DP itself cannot limit the Range of a MIDI channel to a certain part of the keyboard, which is a definite limitation of DP considering both the other DAWs I use/used Live and Logic can do this on a per song basis.

So if you're thinking a keyboard controller like Novation which can split it's keyboard via onboard presets etc. and uses HUI, then yeah you're not running into this issue.
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bayswater
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by bayswater »

Michael Canavan wrote:
bayswater wrote:Just suggesting that if you try cabling from the port you want in the physical input directly to the object you want to receive MIDI only from that port. Probably the same thing Michael C had in mind.
Sort of, with Logic you first set up the Physical Input to send from the ports you want to the Sequencer input, then you create MIDI objects that receive from those ports. Notice the Port setting in the MIDI instrument objects pic. You do this with hardware synths and FX, as well as all your controller keyboards. You don't have to directly insert if between the sequencer input and physical input.
Yes, I can see that. But when it comes to software instrument objects, there is no port setting drop down the way there is for hardware instrument objects. I've seen comments in the Logic forums complaining about differences in the way objects have been set up differently. Not entirely unlike the observation that for the most part you can't use patch change messages in VIs.

Having said that, I see you can cable from the hardware input to a MIDI instrument (hardware) and set the port, and cable from there to a VI.
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dewdman42
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by dewdman42 »

A couple things. First logic does not provide a way to get MIDI output from plugins.

IF.....the plugin has provided for direct IAC output, which some have exactly because of logic's limitation, then you can send the MIDI output out to IAC, loop back into Logic and with the environment you can cable that IAC port directly to a mixer object which has the destination plugin you want to play those MIDI notes. Ok, had that working already, it's kludgey but it works.....for playback.

However for recording things to tracks you have to go through the sequencer port rather then directly to the mixer object. Everything going into the sequencer port gets merged together as one port from what I can see. In some cases you can get smart with MIDI channel assignments and funnel them to the right track, but not always. You can use the transformer to force to a MIDI channel and on and on, the kludge complexity rises as you try to deal with the limitation imposed my logics single sequencer port bottleneck, no ability to specify per track which port to listen to, no MIDI out from plugins, and the implicit behavior of the tracks in which MIDI events are always sent to the currently selected track if they aren't sent to another track. All of these things conspire together to create brain fry, when all you really needed to do is get your drum plugin to send the MIDI to addictive drums, easy peazy in DP
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by mhschmieder »

Amidst all the arguing, my question got missed, so I'll repeat it:

Does anyone know how to access VI's in Logic?

I can only find their internal instruments (and I spent three hours on this a few weeks ago).

Pretty sure I successfully found and loaded external VI's a couple of months ago after I bought Logic. I've gone through the Help file to no avail, and traversed every menu and tried lots of things.

My recollection is that I stumbled across something unexpected that provided a longer list than just the internal VI's, but I can't re-find it. I think they use a different term for them, but none of my guesses worked.
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by bayswater »

In an Instrument track, click on the Instrument button. It's just below the MIDI FX button in the inspector view of the channel strip. In the drop down menu go to AU Instruments or AU Generators.
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mhschmieder
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by mhschmieder »

Thanks; it took me a few tries, but then it worked. And that was where I thought I remembered it being hidden. The problem is that my mouse has been misbehaving a lot lately; I am having to reboot frequently in order to have access to right-click behavior. So I simply wasn't gaining access to that context menu recently, but once I saw it, I remembered it being where I found it earlier. :-)
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by monkey man »

mhschmieder wrote:The problem is that my mouse has been misbehaving a lot lately...
Threaten to replace it with a hamster.

Worked for me - Poindexter cranked his work rate on the wheel 50% the very same day.

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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by mhschmieder »

Yes, but how did the hamster do? :-)
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by Michael Canavan »

monkey man wrote:
mhschmieder wrote:The problem is that my mouse has been misbehaving a lot lately...
Threaten to replace it with a hamster.

Worked for me - Poindexter cranked his work rate on the wheel 50% the very same day.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by monkey man »

mhschmieder wrote:Yes, but how did the hamster do? :-)
:lol:

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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by Michael Canavan »

Spent an hour going over Logic x in the Apple store. I'm one of those weirdos that doesn't really like the GUI changes Apple Made to Logic, and I get why people are convinced Logic is toy like. Too much Garage Band level stuff right out front.

All the old power user stuff is there, but at least with an Apple Trackpad it's clunky... Always loved how Logic handled looping bars in a cycle mode by drawing- clunky now, the looping tool for objects in the Arrange page- clunky now. Maybe better with a regular mouse, but it's weird to see two areas where Logic 7 and below were faster and more efficient than DP ignored and slightly less useful. The Zoom tool is still great, but DP is no slouch that way either.

Graphic redraws in Logic are still lighting fast, that's a plus, but what with improvements possible with El Capitan Metal, that will likely go away as well. At this point I can't see any real advantage of Logic over DP9 unless you really need to use your DAW to split keyboard zones into different tracks etc. which is a pretty arcane thing these days with all the options available. Flex time audio I do think is better sounding than what DP does, but compared to what DAWs like Live and Studio One offer it's behind the time as well.

Cool to know I have no remorse over my decision to stay with DP. 8)
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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Post by musiklover »

I get a chuckle out of some of these comments. Incidentally, you'll be getting it too, at least those on a Mac. AU-3 is imminent, and will support MIDI-output -- as well as more ports, etc. It should be interesting.

I've kept an eye on DP for a while now, and I'm interested in a number of aspects, video being high on the list. When y'all gonna get VCAs, though? I seriously can't believe a platform as highly regarded with such an insanely long history hasn't implemented them, or even given a half-baked shot like Steinberg.

Main question: I've read that earlier this year major platform improvements were made, however, regarding CPU utilization.

How is this going? Is it apples-to-apples Mac-Win?

How is PDC,latency, etc both with and without the likes of UAD?

If I go this route I'm going to have to drink a mind-eraser as I can't fathom working without MIDI regions, but such is life ;)

Any candid responses are appreciated!

One last afterthought: Logic has some amazing VIs and EFX Plugins, and I believe DP does too. What are you all doing for a sampler these days? I'm guessing Machfive, even though not included with the platform, is sorta kinda dead.

How are your eFX in particular? MIDI FX too. Logic's Comp is awesome, though I believe MOTU recently introduced a take on the LA2A. How is it / how does it stack up against 3rd party solutions? Are there any other particularly good ones worth researching? I plan to demo DP in late August / Sept as I'll hopefully be away from the machine more the next few weeks.
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