How to NOT Suck At Digital Performer

[toodamnhip]

This was adorable to me, hope you all like it:

My daughter has finally taken an interest in learning DP, (I tried teaching her a few yrs back and she wasn’t really "into it” or ready).
So now she IS taking an interest and came in asking me how to do some things.

So I show her a few things and off she goes into the other room making herself some drums..whoopee right?..

A half hour later, I walk into the room and there is a note pad on the table...she took notes, I was so proud!!..

Title on top of the page;

“How to NOT suck at Digital Performer”

Ahh youth!! And so another generation of DP users begins the journey...

[labman]

Priceless !!!

[Shooshie]

A half hour later, I walk into the room and there is a note pad on the table...she took notes, I was so proud!!..

Title on top of the page;

“How to NOT suck at Digital Performer”

Ahh youth!! And so another generation of DP users begins the journey...

Watch out... in a few years, she'll know way more than you, and she'll let you know it, too!

Kids: they're grandma's revenge. At last, you get to find out how you treated your parents, and how they felt.

But seriously, congratulations on your daughter's interest in what you do. Mine did, too, but she took a different route. Garageband and Logic. See? Grandma's revenge!

Shooshie

[mikehalloran]

But seriously, congratulations on your daughter's interest in what you do. Mine did, too, but she took a different route. Garageband and Logic.

Mine, too.

The bright side is that, when she wants it edited right, she brings the project to her father. I export the tracks to my desktop, import into DP and get it the way she really wants it. A little father/daughter time that is so precious now that she is grown up and married.

I can't get her to try DP for herself, though.

Another bummer: Now that it is handled through the App Store, my son's-in-law employee discount on software is no longer available to me. I had to pay full price for Logic X. I mean, really?

[Prime Mover]

I know this is very wrong, but I'll often recommend Logic to novices. These are people who are hunting around in the dark, don't even know what a DAW is, let alone why they need one. They're people who are thinking about recording in Audacity or something like that, and just need to be pointed in the right direction. I'm just hoping to god they don't do that, so I'd like them to have SOME DAW experience and I know pointing them to a $500 package will scare them off. They often even get a deer-in-the-headlights look when I point them to a $200 program, but they're a lot more likely to stomach it.

Either that or I tell them to go buy a cheap mic interface and use whatever light DAW comes with it, or an MBox/M-Audio with ProTools *shudder*. At this point I'd probably recommend any DAW over ProTools.

Can't really bring myself to recommend DP to anyone who isn't already actively seeking out a DAW and knows a bit about what they're doing.

[mikehalloran]

Eric,

Along those same lines, there's nothing wrong with GarageBand for those with minimal requirements.

[toodamnhip]

A half hour later, I walk into the room and there is a note pad on the table...she took notes, I was so proud!!..

Title on top of the page;

“How to NOT suck at Digital Performer”

Ahh youth!! And so another generation of DP users begins the journey...

Watch out... in a few years, she'll know way more than you, and she'll let you know it, too!

Kids: they're grandma's revenge. At last, you get to find out how you treated your parents, and how they felt.

But seriously, congratulations on your daughter's interest in what you do. Mine did, too, but she took a different route. Garageband and Logic. See? Grandma's revenge!

Shooshie

Wow, yours went off to Logic, ouch!..lol..Revenge indeed.
Yeah, they might “know” more, but the good thing about musicians is that good is good, great is great, and in that way, old and young can have a bond that transcends age.
When someone can really play their axe, a musician of any age appreciates that. When a producer or mixer can really produce or mix, that too is always respected. There are many “old” guys mixing VERY young records....such ability always appreciated without age discrimination.
“Old” musicians are forever young in that way. It should be an interesting experience as the yrs go by. I look forward to it with my ever the younger daughter.
By the way, the new EZ drummer 2 is VERY exciting in the way one can tap in a beat and it finds similar beats in it’s library. My daughter tripped out on that. Such ergonomic interfaces are an exciting new development that will bring the next generation power none of us dreamed of, (or only dreamed of). And for the current ADD afflicted younger generation, it will make finding what they need way faster than going through libraries of beats manually. You and I had such patience, the youth seems to be limited in this way. YES, they are “fast”, but they are also a bit lazy and spoiled. The new EZ drummer beat find is an exciting development that shows what can be done to make VI’s more efficient to use. My daughters puts in the hrs on the piano like she should, but DP and all the minutia associated with setting up sounds etc, has been a hurdle she wasn’t interested in. Now she can have a drummer without “studying” drums. At least in the short term. Then, when she “gets it”, she can study dem’ drums.
Hopefully, what EZ drummer has done will translate into all VIs. Not to make the music FOR a user, but to make FINDING what you need fast and efficient.
Watch a kid on their cell phone and one sees the level of efficiency they are used to.
Double edged sword? Yes. They are spoiled. Hard work? hmmm, they might not be too familiar with it. But they can be eased into it with the right ear candy and ergonomic functionality right?

[HCMarkus]

My 24 year old son rocks DP... but he uses my template!

On a related note, I only wish it was as effortless for me as it is for him to make things that sound CURRENT. Ah, the pleasures of youth.

[Shooshie]

My 24 year old son rocks DP... but he uses my template!

On a related note, I only wish it was as effortless for me as it is for him to make things that sound CURRENT. Ah, the pleasures of youth.

Wow, you said it. I have to THINK those things through. To my son it's just his voice. I've used his themes in music for games and such, because they were just better than anything I could come up with. (he wanted me to; I didn't steal them) Of course, I turned them into complete works, but he just comes up with great stuff.

So does my daughter! I feel like a creative has-been compared to either one. And you know what? I LIKE it!


Shooshie

[HCMarkus]

My 24 year old son rocks DP... but he uses my template!

On a related note, I only wish it was as effortless for me as it is for him to make things that sound CURRENT. Ah, the pleasures of youth.

Wow, you said it. I have to THINK those things through. To my son it's just his voice. I've used his themes in music for games and such, because they were just better than anything I could come up with. (he wanted me to; I didn't steal them) Of course, I turned them into complete works, but he just comes up with great stuff.

So does my daughter! I feel like a creative has-been compared to either one. And you know what? I LIKE it!


Shooshie

Amen! As the Beatles sang.. "Got to admit it's getting better... a little better all the time."

https://soundcloud.com/marshall-hatters ... ill-waters

[mikehalloran]

By the way, the new EZ drummer 2 is VERY exciting in the way one can tap in a beat and it finds similar beats in it’s library. My daughter tripped out on that. Such ergonomic interfaces are an exciting new development that will bring the next generation power none of us dreamed of, (or only dreamed of). And for the current ADD afflicted younger generation, it will make finding what they need way faster than going through libraries of beats manually. You and I had such patience, the youth seems to be limited in this way.

I was wondering if I should explore this. Perhaps I may but no hurry now. If that's the prime advantage, it holds no appeal to me at all.

I can't imagine not starting with a blank canvass and creating from scratch. I feel like a dinosaur, perhaps, or a Luddite but beat and loop libraries? Yea, I have tons but I've never used any that I didn't create myself.

I am certain that, if a gig landed in my lap and the limited time meant that was the only way I could deliver was to go there, I wouldn't hesitate. It's not like I have principles in that regard. Neither have I disdain for those who use such tools to create interesting music.

I was what... 32 when I got my Mac+ and aged another ten before I got DP. Even then, for years, all projects began on a piece of manuscript paper (still have a box somewhere). If my left arm were to come back, I'd carry a 5-line note pad for jotting down ideas [I can barely print with my right and manuscript is impossible even though it's been 5 years]. It doesn't occur to me that I can sing them into my iPhone, ya know?

I am not against technology; I embrace it. When tapping on the glass screen of an iPad became the only way I could play bass live, I got good in a couple of weeks.

I just feel I was born the wrong time to fully integrate it into my creative process. I probably never will. Hooray for those who can. They'll certainly get more work done and sooner.

[Michael Canavan]

Logic is a great program. Yes, it's unfair that Apple bought Emagic and integrated it, dropped the price etc. but if DP was to disappear tomorrow, Logic is the obvious choice. Cubase is too buggy, and crippled on OSX IMO, so Logic is an obvious choice.

It is lame how it seems certain people just assume that Logic is the only real choice, but there are obvious reasons why people might not look at DP compared. DP is by far the most awkward as far as looping MIDI is concerned. This is a common technique for almost all dance music.

The strength of DP, Chunks, is initially a weakness in terms of learning. People early on can be confused as to how to incorporate Chunks into a workflow, because it's wide open you can be very confused as to how to go about putting a song together.

DP has Chunks, a Track Overview, a Sequence Editor, and a Song Window. Compare that to Logic with it's single arrange page. People seem to be strung out on simple GUI concepts, Fabfilter is often touted for it's straightforward interface etc.

That said, I often attempt to steer people towards DP, I think in the end DP wins out because of it's complexity, and I don't think people should start on something easy per say, if they 'need' easy, I direct them towards Ableton Live. At least if/when they get sick of it's limitations it's not a direct copy DAW wise to DP so getting DP doesn't mean they have to abandon Live.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Funny. Chunks was essentially the heart of Edit/SMPTE Track (Atari) as well a Vision, Studio Vision, and SV Pro. I can't imagine a DAW that lacked multiple sequences in each project. It's just plain stupid to NOT have that most basic feature.

[toodamnhip]

By the way, the new EZ drummer 2 is VERY exciting in the way one can tap in a beat and it finds similar beats in it’s library. My daughter tripped out on that. Such ergonomic interfaces are an exciting new development that will bring the next generation power none of us dreamed of, (or only dreamed of). And for the current ADD afflicted younger generation, it will make finding what they need way faster than going through libraries of beats manually. You and I had such patience, the youth seems to be limited in this way.

I was wondering if I should explore this. Perhaps I may but no hurry now. If that's the prime advantage, it holds no appeal to me at all.

I can't imagine not starting with a blank canvass and creating from scratch. I feel like a dinosaur, perhaps, or a Luddite but beat and loop libraries? Yea, I have tons but I've never used any that I didn't create myself.

I am certain that, if a gig landed in my lap and the limited time meant that was the only way I could deliver was to go there, I wouldn't hesitate. It's not like I have principles in that regard. Neither have I disdain for those who use such tools to create interesting music.

I was what... 32 when I got my Mac+ and aged another ten before I got DP. Even then, for years, all projects began on a piece of manuscript paper (still have a box somewhere). If my left arm were to come back, I'd carry a 5-line note pad for jotting down ideas [I can barely print with my right and manuscript is impossible even though it's been 5 years]. It doesn't occur to me that I can sing them into my iPhone, ya know?

I am not against technology; I embrace it. When tapping on the glass screen of an iPad became the only way I could play bass live, I got good in a couple of weeks.

I just feel I was born the wrong time to fully integrate it into my creative process. I probably never will. Hooray for those who can. They'll certainly get more work done and sooner.

I must respectfully say I think you've completely missed the point to EZ drummer. It is not about the program coming up with a beat FOR YOU, it is about the FEEL of Un quantized real drums. I have made my own beats for yrs from scratch, ha hit records with them and no one knew they weren't real. But you cannot beat the REAL drummer-performed fills and even some of the beats in these libraries, plus you can edit them after. When you buy ALL of the libraries, you have tons of great human performed, un quantized options. It used to be a PITA to go through all the libraries manually, now, with the find beats feature, you can tap in a beat or fill and the program finds only fills and beats that match that, even going online to the libraries you haven't bought yet if you ask it to, showing you libraries you can buy.
In this is way, my large assortment of libraries becomes more used as I don't have to sift through it all. I used to get tired after sifting through 25 fills etc...Now, all the fills I see are relevant.
Un-quantized human feel to beats and real fills galore...that is the point. Plus, now you can change "power hand" and put hi hats parts on toms, rides on hi hats, and really EASILY vary the beats you find in VERY interesting ways...
Coming up with kick kick snare, kick kick snare...of course we can all do that. A substitute for lack of creativity is not what this program is about.

[Michael Canavan]

Funny. Chunks was essentially the heart of Edit/SMPTE Track (Atari) as well a Vision, Studio Vision, and SV Pro. I can't imagine a DAW that lacked multiple sequences in each project. It's just plain stupid to NOT have that most basic feature.

Sure, but as soon as I started using MAS and wrapped VSTs in DP 2.7 I tried to run multiple Chunks with VSTs loaded into them in a Song Window on a 400ghz G4. There was a period where Chunks were sort of hanging in hardware MIDI device land and plug ins were mucking it up. V-Racks solves this but for the electronic musician there are a few caveats, track automation being a big one. you learn to save your knob tweaking until the end.

Mostly I use Chunks now for the basic parts of a song, then consolidate them into a single Sequence Chunk. Mostly for those of us not doing film work, Chunks are great, but you end up in a single Sequence. To a noob this is a classic case of too much information and power right away, people are intimidated.

The way Logic treats 'chunks' of sequence data (bridge, chorus etc etc.) is with Folders, in Logic a folder is timeline based not track based, so you have your folder that contains MIDI and audio, and you move it around the timeline. It's not a bad method. Live does much the same thing with Clips in Session View, each Session clip can be imported into the Arrangement the way Chunks are imported into each other.

Of the three approaches Logic's is the most basic, building block style, Live's version offers some nice tricks, input quantization on Clip firing is way smoother than changing Chunks, even with only MIDI and V-Racks for all soft synths etc., but DP's is by far the best for things like scoring film, remixes, shorter or longer versions of the same song etc.

Anyway, not trying to take this off topic, but I get why some people gravitate towards less initially complex seeming DAWs, and why someone would write "How to NOT Suck At Digital Performer"!

Seriously I started using Logic 4 in about 2002, in about 2006 I upgraded to DP5 and it was crazy how out of sync I was with DP even in just 4 years time. I really didn't start writing in it until DP7, what were probably minor improvements to some of you were huge to me, contextual menus, AIFF/WAV support, Pre Rendering etc. These all made it on par and in most ways better than Logic to me. <-- Plus I do like using Ableton Live, and for whatever reason there were some oddball importing things happening from Logic, whereas DP and Live have always played nice together.