VST3 would really help DP regardless of other issues

[Steve Steele]

MAS would be great I agree, but as you said it didn't get support.

That's really pretty much VSL's bad. VSL Pro is used by a lot of DP users it's pretty nuts they don't support it considering they could offer DP users more ports than VST3. Audio Ease support MAS, it's not unprecedented.

I think, eventually, MOTU will add VST3 support to DP in an upcoming release. But that's just my guess based on their adoption of Windows for DP and what is happening in the film industry concerning DAWs.

I'm a die hard DP and OSX user and want to see these two technologies on the cutting edge.

DP will eventually get VST 3 support, there's a slow trickle of developers that are offering only AU and VST3 versions of their plug ins on OSX. I think a lot of developers on the Mac side are wondering what's going on with AU.

Be aware that DP9 at first wasn't going to have VST support in OSX, MOTU listened to us and added it. and while I don't agree 100% with the thrust of the quote Mike posted, it is true that 'host' support for VST has always been a PITA for developers, the documentation for host support has notoriously been vague, so it takes years to get right. Emagic was chosen for the Apple buyout of Logic partially based on their enthusiastic embracing of AU, and rush to abandon VST support. In Mac OS9 etc. VST support outside of Cubase often meant huge stability problems.. It's all better now, but can you name another VST3 DAW that isn't Cubase besides Studio One maybe?

With all that in mind, again I think the real let down is VSL not supporting MAS considering MIDI port wise it's still more robust than VST3..

VSL has a MAS version of Vienna Ensemble Pro 5. It came out about six months ago. I've been using it since the beta and it works great! 48 MIDI ports are available with MAS. It really changed everything for DP and VEP. It's much much better to work with now.

I don't care so much about VST anymore except for one thing. When I tried using Cubase for a month I really liked the Expression Map and Dynamic mapping features very much. In fact I think it's almost a killer feature with the amount of sample libraries I use.

I strongly think DP should have similar features. But no one around here seems to care that much. I can only suggest it so many times.

Anyway, dynamic mapping and note expressions need VST3 because the feature takes advantage of part of the plugin that contains the VST3 spec. Maybe MOTU could do something similar with an AU to MAS bridge within DP. I'm not sure if that's possible because both the DAW and the plugin format need to support it. At least that's how Steinberg do it.

I'm not willing to leave DP. But those two features were major workflow timesavers.

[Shooshie]

Nothing brings out strong opinions like discussions of favorite DAWs, and second to that, favorite plugin formats. Like Steve, I'm for as much compatibility as possible, but I am also painfully aware of the programming costs and internecine corporate wars that sometimes run rampant through the industry. I have a feeling that MOTU will avoid VST3 until it becomes the go-to format for the better part of the industry. Because they save money on programming and testing, for almost no performance hit at the current time, I understand their position. At least, I think I do. Time will tell.

Geez... how's THAT for straddling the fence? I guess age has made me more pragmatic, even if I still retain some of my former youthful zeal for making DP the latest and greatest in every way. In any case, my work is not going to be affected by it directly, if at all, so it's not my battle, anymore. But I agree with Steve in principle.

Shooshie

[Michael Canavan]

I found another reason today why it would help if MOTU supported VST3 in DP9:

After many hours of frustration with Cakewalk's excellent CA-2A leveling plug-in (which works great in Studio One v3), an email exchange with customer support today confirmed that the AU version depends on some files in the VST3 version being loaded, so DP's lack of support for VST (on Macs at least) means that DP doesn't even see CA-2A (it doesn't show up in the list, even as "failed").

I have no idea how many other plug-ins -- now or in the future -- will have this limitation, but it has caused me to spend time yet again tonight reviewing other threads about VST vs. AU in order to decide whether I should make the switch to VST as my primary format (even though AU is better when it comes to portability of User Presets).

The immediate question is this, do you have the VST3 version installed? With Z3ta+2 in order for the AU to work the VST3 version must be installed. It seems ridiculous to me that Cakewalk could code a perfectly decent wrapper for the Z3ta+2 and mess it up for the CA-2A..

[Steve Steele]

Geez... how's THAT for straddling the fence? I guess age has made me more pragmatic, even if I still retain some of my former youthful zeal for making DP the latest and greatest in every way. In any case, my work is not going to be affected by it directly, if at all, so it's not my battle, anymore. But I agree with Steve in principle.

Shooshie

You getting soft and complacent with age Shooshie? Wink wink nudge nudge.

[mikehalloran]

The only benefit to me is that some of my Antares plugs would regain full functionality. Since I don't use them much, it's a minor issue at best.

Antares says, try before you buy before using their plugs in DP. The AUs generally work on the Mac but they don't function in Windows at all because of lack of support for VST3 in DP.

Is anyone not using DP because of this? I have no way of knowing. Certainly Windows/DP users won't buy Antares except for stand-alone products until this is resolved... one way or the other.

[Steve Steele]

The only benefit to me is that some of my Antares plugs would regain full functionality. Since I don't use them much, it's a minor issue at best.

Antares says, try before you buy before using their plugs in DP. The AUs generally work on the Mac but they don't function in Windows at all because of lack of support for VST3 in DP.

Is anyone not using DP because of this? I have no way of knowing. Certainly Windows/DP users won't buy Antares except for stand-alone products until this is resolved... one way or the other.

What funtions don't work? Let me guess. Something to do with the graphics mode in Autotune? I'm totally guessing. I stopped using their products a few years ago. Antares was a pretty cool company in the 90s but it seems liked they changed sometime last decade and I got tired of dealing with some of their upgrade policies. Oh well.

[mhschmieder]

Z3TA+ 2 and Rapture Pro were just updated last week, and all of my problems with them are now resolved. Both are excellent VI's and I hope they continue to work for a long time.

CA-2A hasn't been updated in awhile. I only found out about it during a sale, and was hesitant to buy due to its age and fear it wouldn't be maintained, but I'm not too worried about that now overall. And anyway, I get more nervous when my sound sources disappear than when one of many effects plug-ins has to be swapped out of the chain.