Mavericks, Curiouser and Curiouser.

[Shooshie]

The strangeness just continues as time goes on and I get deeper into the looking glass. Funny, back in 1984 the first game I found for the Mac was Alice, which was a chess-game, sort of, in which the playing pieces were characters from Alice in Wonderland or Through the Looking Glass. Now any day I expect the grinning Cheshire Cat to start appearing on my screen, saying things like "We're all mad, here."

The problems are diverse and subtle, some so hard to describe that I cannot remember enough details to do them justice. I'm just going to try to list them:

Bear in mind that most of these are either 1-time problems or infrequently intermittent. Very few are constant, but they're all annoying.
• Mail: opens and is "connected" via WiFi and DSL, but "cannot access servers." I would understand if one server couldn't be accessed. Even two. But for more than a half-dozen mail servers unable to be accessed from a variety of sources, there is simply no explanation. Restarting the Mac finally fixed it.
• Apps quit upon opening: It seems that after some kind of a reset event that happens periodically, every app has to go through this routine of crashing before it's fully opened. Reopening it works 100% of the time, though the very first time this happened, I had to reopen some of them 2 or 3 times.
• Bluetooth weirdness: On occasion, the Magic Trackpad (or any other pointing device) suddenly exaggerates every move, making it nearly impossible to zero-in on an object to click. It reminds of a drunkard trying to touch a small object. Rare, but annoying. (gotta keep the booze away from my Mac!)
• Kernel panics: I'll be working, and suddenly the computer is just... OFF! It restarts on its own, but the report for Apple often has no information in it, or very little, other than a list of apps and drivers. In other words, whatever caused the panic happened so fast that even the computer could not log it.
• Sound is off: and nothing will allow me to bring it back. Audi/MIDI Setup, MOTU Audio Setup, CueMix, System Preferences/Sound -- they all seem unable to do anything; every control is grayed out. Lists of interfaces are completely missing. Blank. This can happen at any time, when you've been working in audio for hours, take a 5 minute break, and... POOF! It's gone.
• Things slow down to a crawl: Even with 40 GB RAM and a 2012 top-of-the-line Mac Pro, it gets to the point where I have to force-quit everything just to get the controls back to do a restart. Lots of beach balls.
• Keyboard controls stop working: Arrow keys quit moving selections, keys in general are unresponsive.
• Scrolling may stop working, whether with gestures or using scroll bars, any input device.
• "Recent Files" in the Open menu of many applications will disappear
• Disks fail to spin up from sleep: An operation that requires one or more disks to spin up will fail to complete. I can go to the Finder and wake up all the drives, then do the operation again, and it will be successful. It's as though the Mac is trying to complete an operation without waiting on the drives to spin up.
• Icons in menu bar fail to communicate with their respective apps.
• thousands of little clicks and pops all over the stereo field in audio, whether being streamed from iTunes or played from my own project. This problem seems related to clocking. I was able to get it to stop on one occasion by reconnecting the 896mk3 and choosing "Internal" for its clock.

There are many more, but I can't think of them all, or don't want to take the time to write them all down. Here are some of the many things I've done, sometimes often, to try to help.

1) repair permissions
2) repair disks (including the system disk)
3) zap the PRAM
4) safe-boot and reset certain things
5) clean out old logs
6) throw out some preferences

Again, I don't even remember all that I've done, but I've certainly performed all the standard fixes.

Everyone of these began happening since installing Mavericks. None of them happened before in older OS's. I suspect that it was my Mac that killed my old 896, as it would not sync up with the computer. The new one did that one day when audio stopped working, but I was able to get it working again through manual controls on its panel.

I'm about this far from wiping the drive clean and doing a manual reinstall, reregistering all my apps by hand, and such. I have better things to do over the coming week, so I may not, but this is getting crazy.

Shooshie

[rickorick]

Thanks, I'll be staying right here on Tiger,SL,&ML, everything here still works like it always has.

[Dan Worley]

I'm definitely having my problems with Mavericks, but not anywhere near the troubles you're experiencing, Shooshie. Ouch!

I think Mavericks is a piece of crap! It may be my imagination, but it feels like upgrades and fixes are coming slower for it than they have for any other OSX release. That is not a good sign.

[NazRat]

Maybe try running vigorous memory and disk tests first to see if there are any failing components. Also, try re-seating your cards. It may just be coincidence that it started with Mavericks. I haven't had any problems with 10.9 other than the coreaudio/MOTU driver problem from the .2 update and have not done a clean install since Leopard. I wish you the best of luck - that kind of thing drives me nuts.

[groove]

Man, I feel your pain. System debugging is so time consuming; it could be something as stupid as a usb hub or device compatibility, the internal backup battery showing its age, a printer driver, even a bad cable.

But I think Nazrat has the best advice.

Like him, I've not done a clean install in ages and Maverick is running smootly 12 hours a day on big DP sessions without a glitch. I got 1 DP crash 3 weeks ago and it was due to a corrupted DV file. On my system, 10.9 is the best os so far (and I started with a Mac 128k back in the days..).
In recent years, the only times I experienced problems was from a bad memory stick and external WD Passport drives used for backup. I've changed the RAM stick and trow the drives in the garbage and never saw -touch wood- my system crashing again.

Good luck and I wish you can find the culprit soon.

[mikehalloran]

Interestingly, I have none of these issues. Not one. I did have many of them with 10.8.2, however. Had I gone directly from 10.6.8 to Mavericks like many did, I'd be blaming Mavericks, too.

You need to find out what causes the kernel panics. You have something incompatible that needs to be flushed from your system. A ground up install can have you reinstalling whatever is causing tHe problem.

You say that the reports say nothing. I'm not so sure. Send them to me. I learned quite a bit tracing problems when 10.8.2 was released.

Another thing: What is your video card? There are a dozen in the Mac Pro with a firmware bug that Apple will never fix. No reason to replace it if you have one but there are things to know and, if you don't have one of them, you can cross it off the list of potential culprits. Again, this affects 10.8 and 10.9. there are two more in the iMac - I have one of them.

In my case, flushing out the Bresink temperature monitor freeware (what a pain!) and Roxio Spin Doctor X fixed most of my issues. Closing MOTU Audio Setup.app as soon as I am done with it is the workaround for my video card issue (thanks, Lorne).

Lots of people are fixing the Bluetooth issue on the Mac Pro by extending the antenna or using a third party BT 4.1 USB adapter.

[mikehalloran]

This is not to say I don't or didn't have issues with Mavericks.

Izotope doesn't uninstall anymore. This caused purchased software to expire with the demo. I figured out the workaround and Izotope is working on the cause.

I had to uninstall and reinstall DP 7.24 a few times and had to install DP 8.06 a few more times before either loaded correctly. It was the 10.9.1 updater that caused that one.

DP 8.05 and RX 3 were incompatible in 10.8 - a few days later, Mavericks was released and fixed that problem. Izotope fixed it a couple months later. I still don't understand that one but many of us experienced it.

Lots of issues with Pages and iCloud. I looked around on the Apple support boards before I found whatever preference file that had to be deleted. I did and it worked.

There are probably a few more things but I don't recall at the moment.

[oldecuriosity]

• Kernel panics: I'll be working, and suddenly the computer is just... OFF! It restarts on its own, but the report for Apple often has no information in it, or very little, other than a list of apps and drivers. In other words, whatever caused the panic happened so fast that even the computer could not log it.
• Sound is off: and nothing will allow me to bring it back. Audi/MIDI Setup, MOTU Audio Setup, CueMix, System Preferences/Sound -- they all seem unable to do anything; every control is grayed out. Lists of interfaces are completely missing. Blank. This can happen at any time, when you've been working in audio for hours, take a 5 minute break, and... POOF! It's gone.

I experienced the kernel panics too . . . freaked me out the first couple of times. Brand new iMac - EVERYTHING is a clean install and I didn't even bother putting most older apps, plugs, and non music apps just to keep it clutter free. Same intermittent issues with the sound . . . had to change USB ports to get it back, though it doesn't happen with any identifiable pattern or reliability.

[Shooshie]

• Kernel panics: I'll be working, and suddenly the computer is just... OFF! It restarts on its own, but the report for Apple often has no information in it, or very little, other than a list of apps and drivers. In other words, whatever caused the panic happened so fast that even the computer could not log it.
• Sound is off: and nothing will allow me to bring it back. Audi/MIDI Setup, MOTU Audio Setup, CueMix, System Preferences/Sound -- they all seem unable to do anything; every control is grayed out. Lists of interfaces are completely missing. Blank. This can happen at any time, when you've been working in audio for hours, take a 5 minute break, and... POOF! It's gone.

I experienced the kernel panics too . . . freaked me out the first couple of times. Brand new iMac - EVERYTHING is a clean install and I didn't even bother putting most older apps, plugs, and non music apps just to keep it clutter free. Same intermittent issues with the sound . . . had to change USB ports to get it back, though it doesn't happen with any identifiable pattern or reliability.

Did yours start with Mavericks? Or is it happening to you in another version of the OS?

[mikehalloran]

Did yours start with Mavericks? Or is it happening to you in another version of the OS?

Good question. Looking over my notes, I have not had a single OS crash or kernel panic since I fixed my system in 10.8.2. Apps and other weirdness, yes but not the OS.

Currently, my only problem application is Encore 5.0.7. The installer does not work properly in Mavericks so it won't take the serial number - it also installs the wrong ReadMe and a buggy manual (those can be downloaded separately). Two weeks and and I've heard nothing from Passport. No big deal as 5.0.6 works well enough for my wife's needs.

[oldecuriosity]

Did yours start with Mavericks? Or is it happening to you in another version of the OS?

Only in Mavericks . . . I started on a brand new iMac with Mavericks pre-installed. Until then, I was running everything from an older MBP and it was generally rock solid. Can't remember having another kernel panic on that laptop, though now I've had a few since using the new machine. There doesn't seem to be a discernible pattern as to when it happens and/or what causes it. As an aside, I also had a few glitches with the new micro lite that replaced my old MIDI XT. Again, never seemed to have issues until the new computer/Mavericks combo, though changing the USB port usually solves it (which in itself is a bit weird . . . specifically, the "usually" part). Fortunately it hasn't crippled my work flow, though it's definitely elevated my heart rate while recording . . . .

[mikehalloran]

Kernel panics have a cause. 100% of the time. If the OS caused it, everyone would be affected. Something that you have installed is causing your problem. It is normally a system file with .kext (kernel extension). There are tricks for removing these using Find. It is not intuitive but, once you know how, it's not hard. The problem is identifying the ones not installed by Apple. Applecare is your best friend if you are covered.

Even commercial software can cause it. Toast has a program called Spin Doctor X. It last worked properly in OS 10.5 although it can be kluged in 10.6. It doesn't work at all from 10.7 on. SDX sits in your Toast folder doing nothing until the first time you click on it and it tells you it needs to install a file - you click Yes. This file will cause random kernel panics in 10.8.2 on. It's frustrating because SD doesn't work and you will never open the app again. Not only that, if you Google the .kext after it shows up on the crash report, you will see tons of questions wondering what it is - no one will know unless you find my report. You will have no idea if it's a system file or not. AppleCare tech told me it wasn't an Apple kernel extension so I knew it was ok to remove it - later I found out what installed it. At least it was easy to remove. Run Find and, when you see it, move it to Trash and empty. You have to modify the Find menu to show System and Hidden files but that's easy.

Since it is a new Mac, get Apple involved. The techs can log in remotely and see the log. This is something they are good at solving. if you are past 90 days but under a year, you can still buy AppleCare which gives you phone support for three years from the date your Mac was delivered.

You may not like what they find, especially if it's a utility that you really like. The panic report shows what caused it even if you don't see the cause.

A clue is if you Google a .kxt and you find many chat boards with messages wondering what it is. The SDX file and Bresink show up often. Why? Because they keep showing up in crash reports.

With Bresink, I had to keep searching in Find until I removed every last trace. I've not had a kernel panic since. Neither will I ever install freeware not offered by a commercial software company again. Ok, except for Firefox.

[KarlSutton]

Running Mavericks on two different computers with no issues - a new 8 core Mac Pro - and a 2011 Mac Book Pro. Using DP 8.06 FCPX10.1 & Pro Tools 11 - all good.

The 2010 12 core Mac Pro however is having several issues & is running quite slow - haven't had time to trouble shoot it yet though.

[oldecuriosity]

Kernel panics have a cause. 100% of the time. If the OS caused it, everyone would be affected. Something that you have installed is causing your problem. It is normally a system file with .kext (kernel extension). There are tricks for removing these using Find. It is not intuitive but, once you know how, it's not hard. The problem is identifying the ones not installed by Apple. Applecare is your best friend if you are covered.

Even commercial software can cause it. Toast has a program called Spin Doctor X. It last worked properly in OS 10.5 although it can be kluged in 10.6. It doesn't work at all from 10.7 on. SDX sits in your Toast folder doing nothing until the first time you click on it and it tells you it needs to install a file - you click Yes. This file will cause random kernel panics in 10.8.2 on. It's frustrating because SD doesn't work and you will never open the app again. Not only that, if you Google the .kext after it shows up on the crash report, you will see tons of questions wondering what it is - no one will know unless you find my report. You will have no idea if it's a system file or not. AppleCare tech told me it wasn't an Apple kernel extension so I knew it was ok to remove it - later I found out what installed it. At least it was easy to remove. Run Find and, when you see it, move it to Trash and empty. You have to modify the Find menu to show System and Hidden files but that's easy.

Since it is a new Mac, get Apple involved. The techs can log in remotely and see the log. This is something they are good at solving. if you are past 90 days but under a year, you can still buy AppleCare which gives you phone support for three years from the date your Mac was delivered.

You may not like what they find, especially if it's a utility that you really like. The panic report shows what caused it even if you don't see the cause.

A clue is if you Google a .kxt and you find many chat boards with messages wondering what it is. The SDX file and Bresink show up often. Why? Because they keep showing up in crash reports.

With Bresink, I had to keep searching in Find until I removed every last trace. I've not had a kernel panic since. Neither will I ever install freeware not offered by a commercial software company again. Ok, except for Firefox.

Thanks, Mike . . . appreciate the advice. I'll contact Applecare. The part that makes it interesting for me is that I can't figure out a discernible pattern, and I haven't even bothered to install most of what was on the old laptop to keep only the bare minimum - MOTU software, Kontakt, BFD, iWork (newest versions), and Aperture . . . nothing else. I also realize that most users are not experiencing these issues, which means most likely it's something on my machine that will require some troubleshooting.

Spin Doctor?? Didn't even know that was still around . . . even more impressed that someone else was using it.

[mikehalloran]

From my notes:

The first time you run Spin Doctor X, it asks to install SDX Audio Capture Driver. This installs an extension called Terminus.kext. ... According to Apple Support, Terminus.kext was the culprit.

I forgot about this one:

I was also having problems with my Magic Trackpad and wondered if this was the problem. It would stop working before the kernel panic and would cut out intermittently at other times. Since removing Bresink and Terminus.kext is again working properly.

A typical kernel panic might look like this. The bold is mine:

System uptime in nanoseconds: 250004771491750
last loaded kext at 6190585024787: com.apple.driver.AppleFireWireStorage 3.1.7 (addr 0xffffff7f94c6b000, size 16384)
last unloaded kext at 6292961429937: com.apple.iokit.IOFireWireAVC 4.2.2 (addr 0xffffff7f94bfb000, size 102400)
loaded kexts:
com.bresink.driver.BRESINKx86Monitoring 9.0
com.paceap.kext.pacesupport.snowleopard 5.9.1
com.rogueamoeba.InstantOnCore 6.0.3
com.motu.driver.USBMidiKext 1.6 48575