Mix Reference Advice
Moderator: James Steele
Forum rules
The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other matters outside deemed outside the scope of helping users make optimal use of MOTU hardware and software. Posts in other forums may be moved here at the moderators discretion. No politics or religion!!
The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other matters outside deemed outside the scope of helping users make optimal use of MOTU hardware and software. Posts in other forums may be moved here at the moderators discretion. No politics or religion!!
- timriley
- Posts: 578
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:44 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: London, England
- Contact:
Mix Reference Advice
Hi all.
I'm currently working on a mix for a friend of mine. It's a track consisting of String Quartet, Piano, Acoustic guitar and Vocal.
I'm trying to find tracks which use similar instrumentation, that I can use as a reference for my mix. Any genre/style could be relevant really. So far I've listened to Eleanor Rugby by the Beatles and River Man by Nick Drake for ideas.
I was hoping that some of you could suggest songs or parts of songs or soundtracks that I could listen to. In particular good examples of nicely mixed Piano and String Quartet in a song would be appreciated.
Thanks for any help.
Tim
I'm currently working on a mix for a friend of mine. It's a track consisting of String Quartet, Piano, Acoustic guitar and Vocal.
I'm trying to find tracks which use similar instrumentation, that I can use as a reference for my mix. Any genre/style could be relevant really. So far I've listened to Eleanor Rugby by the Beatles and River Man by Nick Drake for ideas.
I was hoping that some of you could suggest songs or parts of songs or soundtracks that I could listen to. In particular good examples of nicely mixed Piano and String Quartet in a song would be appreciated.
Thanks for any help.
Tim
Mac Pro Quad XEON/2.8Ghz/12GB RAM
Macbook Pro Core Duo/2.16Ghz/2GB RAM
OSX 10.6.8/DP7.22
Macbook Pro Core Duo/2.16Ghz/2GB RAM
OSX 10.6.8/DP7.22
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Not Quartets, but Quintets. Perhaps these will get you in the ballpark?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YXleGIULMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YXleGIULMA
828x MacOS 13.6.5 M1 Studio Max 1TB 64G DP11.31
- Shooshie
- Posts: 19820
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Dallas
- Contact:
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Well, it's old, but so is Eleanor Rigby: Chicago's 2nd album had one entire side done as a series of vignettes for a chamber group that included strings, piano, woodwinds and brass in various combinations. The collective work was called "Ballet for a Girl in Buchanan."
It's late, and I can't think of the names of a lot of other chamber works done in a classical style for pop music. Am I correct in assuming that's what you're looking for? A merging of classical and pop? One group which has been involved in a lot of these kinds of things would be the Kronos Quartet.
Shooshie
It's late, and I can't think of the names of a lot of other chamber works done in a classical style for pop music. Am I correct in assuming that's what you're looking for? A merging of classical and pop? One group which has been involved in a lot of these kinds of things would be the Kronos Quartet.
Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15134
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Always loved Ballet for a Girl in BuchannonChicago's 2nd album had one entire side done as a series of vignettes for a chamber group that included strings, piano, woodwinds and brass in various combinations. The collective work was called "Ballet for a Girl in Buchanan."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQkGQHnwVjE
How about Elvis Costello with The Brodsky Quartette: The Juliette Letters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDULIW5Sx-I
Actually, I've never seen Eleanor Rugby play - were they in a league? (Great name for a team, I'd think).
Eleanor Rigby was done with string octette. Speaking of which, any decent recording of Felix Mendelssohn's Octet in E-flat major for Strings should give you ideas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX2vUR7_-g4
Without vocals, Schubert's Trout Quintette is scored for Violin, Viola, Cello, Bass and Piano.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocndk11thW0
Hector Villa-Lobos Bachianas Brasileira no. 5 is scored for soprano and 8 celli. I remember playing this in college a couple of times. The composer was a cellist. There are many recordings including this one by Anna Moffo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxdAcilnsM
And back to The Beatles, I'm surprised no one's mentioned the most obvious choice or, as Paul sang, "Oh I believe in Yesterday"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S09F5MejfBE
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
- Shooshie
- Posts: 19820
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Dallas
- Contact:
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Ok, I listened to the Ballet for a Girl in Buchannon linked in Mike's post, and didn't hear what I was looking for. It may be that the cuts I'm thinking of were not part of the "ballet." In any case, they were not in that link.
Here are their names and a link to them:
You have to keep in mind that these guys were music majors at... hmm... forgetting. Was it DePaul University? Anyway, it was in the Chicago area, and I don't think it was Northwestern or U of C.
I like the compositions a lot. And I love Jimmy Pankow's trombone solos. The guy had a beautiful tone and great musicianship. (resisting the urge to add the old joke line: "... for a trombone player.") Really, they were quite good players, and interesting composers.
Anyway, sorry for mistaking them for part of the Ballet For a Girl in Buchannon (and for misspelling Buchannon). I loved that album, but it's been 40 years! Even though I arranged parts of that album for several different groups, I don't remember which songs carried the subtitle "from the Ballet..."
Shooshie
Here are their names and a link to them:
- "Memories of Love"
- "Prelude" (1:18)
"A.M. Mourning" (2:05)
"P.M. Mourning" (1:59)
"Memories of Love (4:01)
- "Prelude" (1:18)
You have to keep in mind that these guys were music majors at... hmm... forgetting. Was it DePaul University? Anyway, it was in the Chicago area, and I don't think it was Northwestern or U of C.
I like the compositions a lot. And I love Jimmy Pankow's trombone solos. The guy had a beautiful tone and great musicianship. (resisting the urge to add the old joke line: "... for a trombone player.") Really, they were quite good players, and interesting composers.
Anyway, sorry for mistaking them for part of the Ballet For a Girl in Buchannon (and for misspelling Buchannon). I loved that album, but it's been 40 years! Even though I arranged parts of that album for several different groups, I don't remember which songs carried the subtitle "from the Ballet..."
Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15134
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: Mix Reference Advice
If it's any consolation, I had forgotten that it was called Memories of Love, also. Once I got caught up in the Ballet... again, I sort of forgot the question, you know?
That their first three albums were doubles still amazes me - so much great music! CTA is in my car's CD player. Now I'll have to get the CD of the next two.
I lost interest in the band after Terry Kath died.
That their first three albums were doubles still amazes me - so much great music! CTA is in my car's CD player. Now I'll have to get the CD of the next two.
I lost interest in the band after Terry Kath died.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
- Shooshie
- Posts: 19820
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Dallas
- Contact:
Re: Mix Reference Advice
With a few exceptions, so did I. I love the songs "If You Leave Me Now" and "Hard to Say I'm Sorry." Not for their lyrics, but for their feel. I've arranged both, and they were challenging. "If You Leave..." is a very nice little bossa nova with lots of rhythmic subtleties going on "under the hood." David Foster actually helped us arrange "Hard to Say I'm Sorry," since it was his song. It was interesting seeing how he worked and what he put into it. And I think I came up with some ingenious ways to handle some of the inner voices slowly building tension in that song. Plus, it was fun to see how excited he got about certain little details that the average listener wouldn't even notice.mikehalloran wrote:If it's any consolation, I had forgotten that it was called Memories of Love, also. Once I got caught up in the Ballet... again, I sort of forgot the question, you know?
That their first three albums were doubles still amazes me - so much great music! CTA is in my car's CD player. Now I'll have to get the CD of the next two.
I lost interest in the band after Terry Kath died.
But generally, I agree with you. Kath had that monster voice that just made the group. Cetera had the pop-idol sound (and had great timing on the bass), Lamm had a versatile voice with a lot of jazz influence, but Kath was just plain old rock & roll. And his guitar playing... geez, where did he come from? I once read where Hendrix told someone in Chicago that their guitar player was better than him. I don't think Hendrix passed out compliments like that very often. Kath had it all. He was a tight player with a great voice and perfect timing.
I think the original band, with Danny Seraphine, was one of the best bands in history. Their first album established that fact immediately, and their 2nd and 3rd albums reinforced it beyond doubt. I think also that the trouble Chicago has had receiving its due rewards, such as membership in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame has more to do with the difficulty in categorizing them. They were so versatile, they were all over the place. They started out a protest band, and ended up singing bubble-gum ballads, but that doesn't take away the dozens of hits and the unbelievable playing, singing, and composition on the songs. Especially those in the Kath era. Poor guy; what a waste. I taught my kids what my grandfather taught me, and what Kath proved was good advice: all guns are always loaded, no matter what you think.
Shoosh
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
- timriley
- Posts: 578
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:44 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: London, England
- Contact:
Re: Mix Reference Advice
All really great suggestions guys. Thanks for that.
I'd never have thought of Chicago in a million years!
I've been somewhat inspired by Neil Young's - A Man Needs A Maid - for this mix. Particularly for the piano sound. I like the way it sits back and draws you in.
Thanks again..
I'd never have thought of Chicago in a million years!
I've been somewhat inspired by Neil Young's - A Man Needs A Maid - for this mix. Particularly for the piano sound. I like the way it sits back and draws you in.
Thanks again..
Mac Pro Quad XEON/2.8Ghz/12GB RAM
Macbook Pro Core Duo/2.16Ghz/2GB RAM
OSX 10.6.8/DP7.22
Macbook Pro Core Duo/2.16Ghz/2GB RAM
OSX 10.6.8/DP7.22
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15134
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Although I'm not a big fan of Peter Cetera's voice, I have always thought that he is one the most underrated bassists in rock and roll. I was already fairly accomplished when I first heard CTA in 1969 but his playing just floored me - still does.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
- Shooshie
- Posts: 19820
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Dallas
- Contact:
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Yeah! He and Seraphine were so spot-on that they sounded like pitched drums. And he was all over the bass, musically. Excellent player. Geez. I'm starting to miss them. Maybe I'll pick up a couple of early albums at iTunes. I've got them all on LP, but I haven't had a turntable in 20 years.mikehalloran wrote:Although I'm not a big fan of Peter Cetera's voice, I have always thought that he is one the most underrated bassists in rock and roll. I was already fairly accomplished when I first heard CTA in 1969 but his playing just floored me - still does.
Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15134
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Back to the OP, I was listening to the White Album and when Martha, My Dear came on... Oh yea, the first verse... Paul, piano and strings...
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
Re: Mix Reference Advice
Damn it, Mike. You beat me to it. I just came upon this thread and was going to suggest that. Hmm, haven't listened to Beatles in a while. Must re-visit.
Phil
Phil
DP 11.23, 2020 M1 Mac Mini [9,1] (16 Gig RAM), Mac Pro 3GHz 8 core [6,1] (16 Gig RAM), OS 14.3.1/11.6.2, Lynx Aurora (n) 8tb, MOTU 8pre-es, MOTU M6, MOTU 828, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Satellite, a truckload of outboard gear and plug-ins, and a partridge in a pear tree.