Rubbish music: why we judge others for their musical tastes

[BKK-OZ]

I came across this interesting article on the Guardian's site today while doing my morning reading. Not sure I agree with the conclusions of the authors of the study that prompted the article, but I do find it interesting nonetheless. I guess that in a nutshell, the argument put forward is that the more sophisticated one's palette or ability to discern, the better one is able to appreciate/judge something. Snobbery in another guise?

...researchers at the University of Melbourne have uncovered incredible results: how much pleasure we take in music is proportional to to how much dissonance we hear. And dissonance isn’t entirely dependent on physical properties we’re born with...

and

...Essentially, we can learn to like better music...

hmmmm... 'better music'?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

[BKK-OZ]

Does that mean that you don't mind those damn kids' music, as long as they don't play it too loud?

[Shooshie]

That reminds me of occasions in which someone would be waxing ecstatic over some kind of music that sounded like complete rubbish to me. It occurred to me: "is their taste just more sophisticated? Are there levels of understanding in this music which simply have eluded me?"

So, I investigated further. Turned out they were just incredibly stupid. Every time!

I mean, who knew?



Shooshie

[BKK-OZ]

That reminds me of occasions in which someone would be waxing ecstatic over some kind of music that sounded like complete rubbish to me.
Shooshie

Been there!
But, some of my now-favorite things to listen to were not so well liked at first. Often it will take awhile for me to 'appreciate' something. Not sure if that is the same thing as referenced in the article tho.

[twistedtom]

I once started a topic about junk art, and music and got told by some of the same people posting here that there was no junk art as it all made a statement.

[BKK-OZ]

I once started a topic about junk art, and music and got told by some of the same people posting here that there was no junk art as it all made a statement.

Was I one of those people?

I'm not sure I have ever had an opinion one way or the other about 'junk art'. Maybe I did at one point, dunno, don't recall.

I (think) I now think that it is all pretty much in the eye of the beholder, and far be it for me to invalidate someone else's pleasure in looking at something or listening to something. That doesn't stop me from thinking some things are rubbish. But I guess I am happy that I might think something is rubbish, whereas someone else might think it genius. I don't have to agree with them, it doesn't bother me, nor would someone else's opinion necessarily change my opinion.

[Shooshie]

Well, to point out what I thought was obvious, my post was 100% in jest. It just seemed appropriate at the moment.

And I don't know if I was one of the people who said there is no junk music back when Tom posted his topic, but I really do believe that there is junk music and rubbish, and that some of it does make the mainstream in any category. There's a difference between imitative and copy-cat, or between complexity and complicated, or between exploratory and academic. But I also believe that if something really turns you on, it doesn't matter what I think. That's your taste and your business. I don't always go after the music that's considered to be among the "standards."

As I write this, I'm listening to Herbie Hancock on a 1987 broadcast of "Piano Jazz" with Marian McPartland. It's just amazing to my ears, and hard to imagine how it could be otherwise to anyone, but I know there are some for whom jazz is not their cup of tea. Prior to that, I was listening to Van Cliburn playing Rachmaninoff concerto #2, and Rubinstein playing the same thing. Mind blowing, all of it. But I had a professor who thought Rachmaninoff was the Kenny G of classical music (no offense to Kenny G fans; he's just caught a lot of negative comments from jazz players). He believed that Rachmaninoff and those who played his music were the downfall of music everywhere. Of course... his kind (my professor) are an extreme minority, thank goodness.

Stravinsky wrote his share of junk (a small share, to be sure). But we forgive him, because he also wrote stuff of extreme genius. The point being that anyone is capable of junk music. It doesn't mean that "junk" is a blanket judgment of the composer, performer or group. Sometimes repeated listening brings out some element of sophistication previously not understood, but probably more often it just remains what it was to begin with.

That's some of my junk opinions, so take it all with a grain of salt, as I attempted to do with my first post (the one in jest).

Shoosh

[twistedtom]

I once started a topic about junk art, and music and got told by some of the same people posting here that there was no junk art as it all made a statement.

Was I one of those people?

I'm not sure I have ever had an opinion one way or the other about 'junk art'. Maybe I did at one point, dunno, don't recall.

I (think) I now think that it is all pretty much in the eye of the beholder, and far be it for me to invalidate someone else's pleasure in looking at something or listening to something. That doesn't stop me from thinking some things are rubbish. But I guess I am happy that I might think something is rubbish, whereas someone else might think it genius. I don't have to agree with them, it doesn't bother me, nor would someone else's opinion necessarily change my opinion.

I was going to edit what I said as I thought about it and I am not sure what any of us said, but it is to late for that. I just remember the ideas we expressed. I am going to be big and say there is no junk music, but there are bands and songs I don't care for; even if I feel that there is junk music. The music I like covers a very wide path. Shoo I like jazz quite a bit, but I know people that can't stand it, their ears are not used to the changes so to them it sounds strange. On the other side of the music world I like metal, but to me some of the bands that scream hammer their guitars sound like Satin screaming and running a chain saw. I do think there are also snobs who show their sophistication by not liking much of anything. Not all music has to be complicated, or be a competition for who can play the same song better. Sometimes I like a hamburger and sometimes I like a fine meal; I have had hamburgers that were out of this world good, and so called fine dining meals that tasted like crap. Talking about food I am going to cook italian this weekend stop by.

[mikehalloran]

Deems Taylor wrote that 97% of music from any era is junk. It was just as true 250 years ago as it is today. I haven't the time to look up the exact quote but that's close enough.

If you get the chance to read his essay collections (based on his radio talks and newspaper columns), you should. The first, "Of Men and Music" can be found online if you search for it. In "The Well Tempered Listener" and "Music to My Ears", he goes into musical taste and developing a critical ear. Never pedantic or esoteric, he always illustrated his points with stories about people and events. Agree or disagree with his opinions, his insights are entertaining and they do enlighten the thought process.

Mr Taylor thought that jazz was awful, btw. He lived into the rock era - I have no idea how he tolerated it. He was quite popular in the '30s - '50s even if primarily known for narrating "Fantasia" nowadays.

[bayswater]

bands that scream hammer their guitars sound like Satin screaming and running a chain saw.

Maybe the problem comes from judging it as music. Music is being used in the performance, probably because no one would show up to see it otherwise, but maybe music is not the point.

I saw Dylan without electric backup. He putzed around with the b string for the entire performance and never got it in turn, made loads of fingering mistakes, and had sloppy timing. My heroes at the time were Hendrix and Clapton. All I took from that was that Dylan was a crap guitarist. I didn't get the point of Dylan. (I do now, and I still don't like it)

[twistedtom]

The first instrument I learned to play was the harmonica, I played a lot of blues and J. Giles stuff like Whama Jama. people would ask me if I could play Dylan, I said yes but he could not play what I do. I know that was a bit smart azzed but hay what the -----.

[twistedtom]

If the standards are so high that 97% of all music is crap then almost everyone's here music is crap, as I said some people are just snobs, they think not liking things makes them sophisticated.


I work on a different philosophy there are very few things that don't hurt others that I do not like. Most things I put a value on how much I like them, there are a number of things I do not like enough to bother with.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

The discussion is kind of silly - like arguing about what "art" is. You know it when you see it and you know it when you hear it, but the only thing that really matters in those sentences is "you."

It is totally a subjective process and no amount of words describing or defining it will be useful. Surely, those with similar tastes can discuss the things they "like" about certain genres, but that means exactly dick to someone who dislikes a particular art form.

I'm not big on Rap or HipHop, but when I watched the Kennedy Center Awards recently, I was blown away by Snoop Dog's performance. Just shows to go you that you can teach an old dog a Snoop Dog's tricks.

I got your art right heeere!



black square, copyr. 2008 Robert Matson

[bayswater]

If the standards are so high that 97% of all music is crap then almost everyone's here music is crap.

Welcome to the 3%.