What makes DP better than competing programs?

[bricker]

I am not looking to start a flame war here. I understand that people's choice of DAW is 99.99% subjective. However, I would like to discuss what DP has that Logic Pro, for example, doesn't. I am also interested in the opposite — things that Logic has that DP doesn't. Have any of you switched from Logic to DP, or vice-versa?

Why? Just interested, and I have so little experience with Logic that I don't really feel like I can make a case for DP, without being able to provide these kinds of examples.

[BKK-OZ]

Some relevant thoughts in this thread: http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =9&t=56444

[Shooshie]

There's a problem in answering a question like that. It requires that for objectivity, you must be equally a master at any of the competing apps to which you compare DP. I consider myself fairly masterful at DP; I can imagine what I want done, and in a very short time, I can play for someone else what was very recently just a figment of my imagination. Very little gets in the way of that happening.

I'm not a master of Logic, nor of ProTools, but I've used both. I've tried out many other apps, as well. Simpler apps, such as DSP Quattro, I can quickly learn and use to the full extent of their abilities. But deep apps such as Logic and ProTools require years to master, just like DP.

A quick look at DP's "Commands Window" (SHIFT-L) will show you about 30 printed pages of commands you can use in DP. They won't all fit in menus, and there aren't enough possible keyboard equivalents to give them each quick access. So, DP gives you the whole list from which you can choose the ones that will most help you in your daily work. You can provide those with keyboard commands (computer keyboard or MIDI keyboard or controller), so that you can streamline your work and make it super-effective.

Logic has a similar list, though I think DP's is easier to scan and read for sheer education. But the point is that both apps are deep. Very deep. What it comes down to, then, is how you work in each app. To me, DP is very smooth and simple with the fewest excess windows, dialogs, and menus to have to open in daily operations. Routine moves should not require multiple steps, and most of DP's routine moves are pretty simple to carry out.

I found that Logic was a little more convoluted than DP, and sometimes just not adequate in certain areas, such as quick editing of velocities, controller data, or adjusting beats to fit an existing performance in MIDI or audio. (making a MIDI score line up with an actual performance) But I reiterate: I'm not a master of Logic. There could be hidden levels of more powerful tools that I just didn't find. Or, Apple could have improved those things since I last used them seriously. (Logic Studio Version 8 )

So, you see that while I would like to answer your question, I really don't think I know enough to do so. I can only say "I know my way around Digital Performer, and it never throws obstacles in my path that slow me down or become insurmountable." I cannot say that for any other DAW. In fact, I found that Logic DID throw obstacles in my path. Using it was painful, really. I consulted a lot of Logic users, and got some pretty effective advice from several of them. They were not able to show me better methods that removed those obstacles, so I have to conclude that I was indeed working about as fast and precisely as I could ever expect to work in Logic. My hat is off to those Logic users who have the fortitude to stick with it and complete major works, beautifully rendered, in such a difficult DAW to use. Of course, they don't know that DP may offer faster, easier workflow to accomplish the same thing, or that DP may make their editing procedures more precise with less hassle. So, they're probably content doing those things.

And just as they are content with their workflow, ignorant of the possible improvement that may be just a switch of DAW away, one could also say that I may be equally blissfully ignorant of something Logic could do for me. But at least I did make a concentrated effort to learn Logic and use it effectively, even if it was only for a little while. My final decision in Logic was that I was wasting too much time, when I could be getting things done in DP, so it was back to DP, and I rarely open Logic anymore.

Digital Performer, then, is a choice I made, based on my familiarity with it, but also based on my dislike of Logic after using it on and off (with serious intent) for nearly a year. I've tried several other DAWs, but after assessing their methodology for the areas in which I regularly work, I concluded similarly that I'd be happier in DP.

Does this make DP better than the others? For me it does. But I cannot speak for anyone else but me.

Shooshie

[Gravity Jim]

30% more juju than any other DAW!

Seriously, if you think, honestly, that 99.99% of preference is "subjective," (and it's not, as Shooshie demonstrated... It's mostly objective based on the needs or preferences of the user), then why even ask a question like that?

When someone starts a post with the phrase "I don't want to start a flame war, but..." I instantly discount everything that follows as tinder for a flame war.

[Shooshie]

Here's an interesting video comparing DP and Logic in the making of a film score.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=410NYmSJxdI

At about 33:57 he mentions that DP's syncing capabilities are rock solid, whereas Logic's can vary a frame or two; Logic doesn't sync as well.

But the video itself is full of useful information, regardless of "which one is best."

Shooshie

[artfarm1]

Why choose DP over other programs?

Quite simply, working musicians need equipment that works!

Speaking for myself, and probably many other working musicians 'in the trenches', most of us don't have 'money to burn'.

And most musicians don't want to be constantly upgrading their software and computers and crossing their fingers that their equipment is going to work.

It's beautiful that us DP users don't need to have the 'latest/greatest' in order to make music. Many DP users are very happy with old Mac G4's and G5's to this day running older versions of DP!

Or else, like myself, I have a 4 year old Mac that can run the new DP8 on OSX 10.6.8.

The following is very important:

*Thanks to this forum, MOTUnation, we can all stay incredibly informed by fellow DP users as to what we need to have in order to stay up and running!!!* (This forum might be reason enough to use DP!)

Upgrades and changes are inevitable, but unless you're making a ton of money in a major studio, who can afford to keep up with the world of Avid and ProTools? Only the places that do most of their work with live musicians in the studio and have fallen into the 'ProTools' world of expectations. And a lot of those places have other people or investors footing the big bills to make the upgrades and changes.

I ventured off and used Logic from about 2008 to 2012, and it was a constant love-hate relationship. And, I never, ever, ever, really liked the finished 'sonic product' of my finished product when compared to what I had done in the past with DP. I had to come back to DP after dealing with the little voice in my head!

It's probably safe to say that anyone just using DP as their primary DAW for 'live, analog' recording is more than pleased. Clients will be pleased by the outstanding sound, and they certainly don't care what DAW you've used!

And for those of us that do a majority of work with a mix of VI's and analog use, we find DP is way more 'logical' than Logic, not as 'square' as Cubase (but it's getting better and more DP-like!), not as 'lifeless' for real breathing musicians as Live is, more reasonably in touch with the needs of the many than Reason is, doesn't insult a musicians intelligence like GarageBand does, travels better from job to job and more studio-friendly than Studio One, is more fun than the PC-only DAW platforms, and is certainly as overall 'Pro' and a way less of a headache to keep up with than ProTools!

Have a good Christmas season pondering your choices!

Ask Santa to bring you DP!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I don't thinks it's necessarily a matter of what one DAW has that another doesn't. A Kia will get you to the same place as a Porsche. They both have wheels and arrive at a destination. It becomes a matter of *how* they do what they do that makes the difference. Both, BTW, are prone to crashes.

For me it's a matter of "mental ergonomics." I think like the DP programmers just as I think like the Finale programmers. Clearly, Sibelius is a capable program, yet I have difficulty with it even after a year of trying. I learned the basics of Finale in a few days and fast enough to write a full orchestral score under a serious deadline.

Both programs have essentially the same basic tools. So which is better?

I'll take the Porsche, thank you very much.

[stubbsonic]

For me it's a matter of "mental ergonomics."

That is quite nicely put, MLC!

[Shooshie]

For me it's a matter of "mental ergonomics."

That is quite nicely put, MLC!

Perfect summary of the whole works. It's the same way I feel when going from Mac to PC. The PC is just an odd, arcane way of working. It's like having to type at a desk that's too low, or play a keyboard that's too high. But it's all in the software, so it's mental. Mental ergonomics! Thanks, MLC!

Shoosh

[mikehalloran]

I have Logic Studio 8, 9 and Pro X and have used them to export GB and Logic projects into forms that I can import into DP for editing - where I am comfortable and can edit to a gnat's whisker.

If DP did not exist, I'd have to learn Logic, no doubt. I have never started a project in Logic and see no reason to begin now.

[James Steele]

Okay... again this is largely THEORETICAL discussion, not a real troubleshooting topic. Moved to the "Theoretical/OT" forum.

[mikehalloran]

Okay... again this is largely THEORETICAL discussion, not a real troubleshooting topic. Moved to the "Theoretical/OT" forum.

Anyone not see that one coming?

[Prime Mover]

I am really interested in this thread, and I DEFINITELY don't think it was meant as a troll. It doesn't strike me as a rhetorical question. Fact is, I've started a new project with a couple guys who use Logic. At one point they asked me if I might switch, and I almost did a backflip. Even if I didn't like using DP, I've been working with it for 12 years, logged thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of hours on it. I'm just getting to know these guys and they otherwise seem pretty cool, but I was kinda ticked when I heard that.

Anyway, it would be good to know DP and Logic's strengths and weaknesses, because frankly, I've never used Logic, and it's been about 8 years since I last used Pro Tools, 13 since Sonar, and my experience with Cubase is extremely limited. Why am I still using DP? Because it's done me very well over the years. Can I really intelligently compare it to other programs? Not really at this point. Good to hear what more experienced minds on the issue have to say.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Simple answer to the whole thing?

Because I like it more better.

End of story.

[Kubi]

It IS indeed a valid question and there are a number of things that DP does that no one else does. There are an even greater number of things where the aggregate of DPs strengths trump the aggregate of any other competitor's strengths. But it is hard to enumerate, since every update of every DAW changes the landscape. I used to have a list that I made a few years ago but it is a bit outdated by now. here's a few that come to mind. The original list was easily twice the length:

Biggest one is chunks - multiple projects at once inside a project. Could never, ever work without that, ever again.

Related - multiple save-able mixes. Not so important for me, but I know a lot of folks for whom this is central.

Another big one is the one of the most (if not the most) flexible and easy to use routing system of the major DAWs, as well as an incredibly flexible and easy-to-use view filter.

Another big one - wait for MIDI. (Apparently Logic doesn't (or didn't) have that. How the eff do you work without wait-for-MIDI?)

Scoring tools, like streamers etc. If you prep live sessions, pretty sweet.

Ability to export a Quicktime file directly from within the DAW (Logic apparently did away with that feature… why, nobody knows. Again, how the eff do you work without that on tight deadlines?)

All the graphic MIDI editing tools are big for me. Also the "mathematical" composition tools, like invert.)

Not sure how powerful other DAW's custom scales are, but I use DP's all the time. I invented a ton of scales that I can use in transposition just like major, minor and other modes. In fact they show up in the same list.

I used to LOVE consoles, and in fact built a bunch to drive external recorders, to convert MIDI controllers etc. But I haven't used them in years, haven't needed them in years and I gather they don't work so well anymore? No need for me, don't use external MIDI and especially don't use SysEx anymore, and sure as hell DON'T miss it...

There's tons more. My choice if it wasn't for DP would easily be ProTools - it comes closest to DP in audio editing (and has a few features I wish DP would add, like spot to counter. All in all a very fast and smart workflow for audio.) And it is by far the most prevalent in the world of professional studios, both for records and for film/TV. BUT: the big no-no with ProTools is their stupid, retarded, idiotic, insane insistence on custom plug-in formats. I mean, MOTU went down that road, but have long since added a stable and reliable AU implementation (and now also VST). Until PT gets that, they are simply not a viable alternative as a native DAW.

One note: A lot of folks whom I highly respect as music makers use and like Cubase. I know nothing about that DAW, so no idea how that compares. But Logic simply can't hold a candle to DP. PT comes closer, but loses in the end due to plug-in format and lack of some key features like chunks.