Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

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MikeInBoston
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Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by MikeInBoston »

Even with adding Windows compatibility, I don’t think people are knocking down the doors trying to get a copy. DP has an image problem, and MOTU doesn’t seem to be able to fix it. Nor do they seem interested in making DP’s feature-set more competitive with the most popular DAWs (Ableton Live, Logic, and Cubase come to mind). I think young people, in particular, think of DP as their “grandfather’s sequencer”, and in one way, they may be right. I mean, who uses DP, anyway? I would take a guess that we aging baby-boomers are in the majority. No wonder they don’t think DP is cool. Without young artists publicly championing their flagship product, MOTU may never get young people to use their DAW, and that would be bad for all of us.

I hope I don’t ruffle too many feathers with this post.

Mike
Last edited by MikeInBoston on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Tesionman
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by Tesionman »

Wow!! You read my mind! I've been thinking about that for a while now. I agree with you!!
I never mentioned this but sometimes I feel like I'm de youngest one here in the forum. Every user here seems older than me. I always got that impression. And I'm in my early 30s.
It doesn't bother me one bit because this forum is full of knowledgeable and experienced people.
But come to think of it, I don't know anybody younger than me that uses DP. Its all Logic, Cubase, REEPER and Ableton,etc...
I also sometimes thought that DP must be the old timers DAW for that same reason. haha

Anyway, I don't really give a f*ck! It works for me.. :)

cheers
Last edited by Tesionman on Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by Kubi »

I know of a decent number of users of all ages, from mid 20s all the way up, here in LA - mostly in the film music community. (Of course that's the community I know best… so there probably are others.)

It's very competitive out there, not just for DP - but DP still has a solid base, and since DP7 and DP8 I'd say has been a bit on the upswing again.

No worries.

8)
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by David Polich »

First, I think this is a thread that should be in the "Off-Topic" section,
as it has nothing to do with DP usage or plug-ins.

Second, do I think DP users are a dying breed? My answer is no - and even
if we "were", I couldn't care less. A question like this is just speculation, it isn't based on statistics. "Just asking around" or "people I know" isn't statistically valid.

MOTU wouldn't put any time and effort into DP if it didn't return at least
some profit. No company puts out products as a public service. So before you
declare DP a dying DAW, think about that...businesses exist to make money.
Someone somewhere in the world today is purchasing DP.

Okay, third - if I want "Ableton Live" features, I'll buy Ableton Live. But I'm not a cut-and-paste musician/composer. I've never had the slightest interest in Ableton Live. I do own other DAW's, but only for one reason -
I collaborate with other people who are on other DAW's. That's it.
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Prime Mover
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by Prime Mover »

I think it's one of those things where MOTU or DP isn't having any trouble more than DAWs as a whole are booming, and DP is getting the least new love. Doesn't mean that those sales are detracting from DP, though.

As far as I can tell, the number one reason is PRICE. Honestly, at $200, it's very difficult for me to suggest to any new person NOT to get Logic X over DP. I have very little case to make for purchasing DP on a Mac with those numbers. Especially because the reality is, DP has a bit of a steep learning curve, and from what I hear, Logic is a bit quicker to jump into. For pros really wanting to dig in, DP is probably better (I've never used Logic, actually), but it's always been hard for me to recommend DP to someone as a first-time DAW user though. It was my third, and I think I would have been lost had I tried to start with it.

But yeah, *IF* MOTU decides that they really want to go after the big numbers, they have some work to do, but it seems as if their business strategy is one of small scale and large profits, which can work too. Worked for Apple for years!
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by aweaselkid »

Couldn't agree more. I'm in my mid-20's and love DP, but there is a serious issue here. Of course you don't see it if you are in the population MOTU generally tailors and caters too, but marketing, artist-relations wise, PRODUCT TUTORIAL/EDUCATION wise? agreed, too far behind...

If you think about it, what makes it worse is DP is their flagship product, so you'd hope to hell they were hypersensitive about who they should target, how they can market their product, what competitors are doing NOW (instead of saying "we were the hottest girl at the party in 1994..."). Their hardware sucks, because it always breaks, all VIs are UVI based, so what else do they have?

I'm concerned too. I want this product to be around for when I am one of those old, getting-pushed-out-of-the-way-by-some-cocky 20-something-year-old, film composer in my fifties... And to do that, it does need to bridge to the next generation, or the product dies alongside its current users. Basic business.
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by aculver »

In many ways, MOTU and DP do indeed hark back to another era. But the company and product clearly have a loyal community of users paying the bills. This means, clearly, something is going right; and just as clearly, some things could stand improving.

My suggestions:

1. Be deep! Make bucking the trend to dumb-down software a virtue. Deep, and, yes, complicated is not by definition bad. I see evidence in my software company's clients that some very young users get this; they are bored with having dozens of cheap little apps that do one thing only; they are ready to dig in and make integrated software work for them, supporting quality and productivity, even at the cost of some time and effort. Even Facebook is not a simple app anymore, and LinkedIn has become a downright vocation for many people. So, MOTU, play up the depth and detail, tell the world this is a real tool you can build a vocation or business around.

2. Be social! One thing no company can survive these days is being opaque. Who is MOTU? Who owns it? Who runs it? Why don't I get an email from the owner or CEO every time I upgrade? Where's the blog posts about what they're working on in the lab (I'm a loyal active user, I don't consider pieces about existing feature to be 'news'!). The people who run companies these days have to give of themselves as though they were honored members of the community, like my grandfathers used to do. They have to get out and be seen, do good. Look how well Steven Slate does at this. I wager more than half of his sales are due to how visible he makes himself. The CEO of Abelton gets this too, and he's no natural pitchman like Slate is either.

I want MOTU to do really well. It makes me feel good that I chose the best. I want more people understanding the value of putting real effort into working to a high standard with a great tool. But on top of that, I want to know who my partners are -- including my partners at MOTU.

Fix and focus.

Andrew
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by David Polich »

Wow, I see some very big misconceptions about MOTU and DP here.

Let's start with whether DP has a steeper learning curve than Logic.
As a Logic owner (and reluctant part-time user), my answer to that is
an emphatic no. Logic has a steeper learning curve. DP is one of the
easiest DAW's to learn. You want steep - try Cubase.

Next - MOTU is not a software-only company. They are primarily a hardware manufacturer that makes some software. Their largest profit share is in their hardware sales.

I see no sense whatsoever in adding Ableton-type features to DP. And
lets face it, when people mention "keeping up", they're talking about
Ableton Live. Again, if you want Ableton Live features, just buy Ableton Live.

MOTU's marketing decisions are their own. And where is DP most prevalent?
In film and video scoring, that's where. Why would MOTU add Ableton Live
style features for film and TV composers? Makes no sense.

There seems to be a misconception that there is a lot of money in audio
software. The combined profits of every audio software company on the planet, yearly, probably don't equal the yearly profits of one Albertson's
grocery store. MOTU isn't Shell Oil. As to who "owns" MOTU or who their CEO
is - man, I can think of plenty of businesses and corporations whose CEO's
are mystery men and whose parent companies and primary stockholders are
not publicly known. Does the CEO of Avid send you an email everytime there's
an upgrade to Pro Tools? I rest my case.

Anyway, unless you work for MOTU, I don't think you can second guess them
on where they should put their marketing money, or how they should go about
marketing DP. And frankly, what's the point of even asking the question?
DP is what it is. Use it or don't. Buy another DAW if you want that DAW's
features.
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by aculver »

David Polich wrote:Wow, I see some very big misconceptions about MOTU and DP here.
Dave, I think the misconception is yours. You seem to be just fine with the status quo. But the premise of this thread is that MOTU and DP have a market problem with younger users. Some posters have attested to that.

It would be great if MOTU's leaders would chime in here and let us know how true that may be. Absent them, I was hoping we could generate some useful suggestions to help our (invisible) friends at MOTU counteract the problem.
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by midilance »

No. I don't ever feel like DP users are a dying breed.
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by Dan Worley »

Is there something wrong with being older that I don't know about? Please fill me in.
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by mikehalloran »

Let's start with whether DP has a steeper learning curve than Logic.
As a Logic owner (and reluctant part-time user), my answer to that is
an emphatic no. Logic has a steeper learning curve. DP is one of the
easiest DAW's to learn. You want steep - try Cubase.
Amen to that!
I do own other DAW's, but only for one reason -
I collaborate with other people who are on other DAW's. That's it.
Yep!

Hmmmm... I'm counting the number of projects that I have created in Logic Studio 8, 9 or Logic Pro X... still none. Without Logic, what would I use to open GarageBand and Logic files so that I could export them into forms that I can edit in DP?
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by James Steele »

Mike... although I don't mind users waxing poetic one way or another, or even if I think they're concerns are overblown, I DO ask that you post this in the right forum. This CERTAINLY has no business being in the "Digital Performer [MacOS]: Usage, Techniques, Tips & Optimization" forum, does it?

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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by Kubi »

Just a quick note re. the social media component - for the past year or so MOTU has had a very active YouTube channel and promotes it quite well via Facebook and Twitter (well, those are the two platforms I'm on so that's where I see it. There may be others.)

Go check them out, they have daily tech tips that are insanely useful even for an experienced DP user like me, as well as less regular "news"-style updates featuring DP artists etc.

I'm sure there's always room for improvement, but there's been a lot of stuff happening in at MOTU in regards to PR and social outreach. This thread would definitely have been more apropos a year or two ago - their communication/outreach has changed for the better quite a bit.

As for the public face, he may not be the CEO, but that's what Dave Roberts has been doing for a long time. He's on this board as magicd. (He used to go by Magic Dave, seems he's trying to quietly drop that, with mixed success, I'd say… once you know him as Magic Dave, it's hard to just let go of that.) :D :D :D :D :D Plus who knows, MOTU may *actually* be owned by a unicorn. Would explain the privately held reclusiveness...
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Re: Ever feel like DP users are a dying breed?

Post by billf »

MikeInBoston wrote:No wonder they don’t think DP is cool.
Maybe so, but all too often, todays "cool" is tomorrows "fad," disposable and soon forgotten.
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