Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

[Babz]

But perspective is difficult.

Perspective is everything.

Spoken like a true Buñelian giant eyeball, HC!



B.

[James Steele]

With regard to Gaga, I believe earlier in this topic I acknowledged her talent and have seen video of her back before she assumed her current bizarre public persona, performing at the piano and singing. I was quite impressed. What I lament, is that sort of talent isn't enough (at least that's what Stefani Germanotta thought) to reach the public, hence the need to be (or "act") as strange and bizarre as possible for attention.

[Shooshie]

But perspective is difficult.

Perspective is everything.

Therefore… Everything is Difficult!!!

[bayswater]

Thank you Mr. Euclid.

[bayswater]

What I lament, is that sort of talent isn't enough

Well, it isn't, is it? I'm sure we've all met people with what seems like god like talent that can barely make a living from their art. You also need good management, and something people will remember about you. Even the Beatles had to deal with the calls from the audience in Hamburg to "mak show".

[Shooshie]

With regard to Gaga, I believe earlier in this topic I acknowledged her talent and have seen video of her back before she assumed her current bizarre public persona, performing at the piano and singing. I was quite impressed. What I lament, is that sort of talent isn't enough (at least that's what Stefani Germanotta thought) to reach the public, hence the need to be (or "act") as strange and bizarre as possible for attention.

I think Stefani could have been quite successful as a singer/pianist, but the range for that consists of approximately a handful of clubs and lounges in any given city. I can think of a few ladies who are quite popular as jazz singers on the piano, and even though they win Grammies, they aren't superstars.

The whole idea of being a superstar is something different. Music is more like the glue that holds the act together, but it's not the act. Gaga wanted to make statements and endear herself to a massive following. I'm sure she wanted to make a lot of money, too, but she honestly doesn't seem all that affected by the money. It's just a means to more ends for her. It takes guts to put yourself out there in that way. It's very lonely at the top, and only a handful of people can say they've been there. I can't imagine what that's like, actually, but I know that it's not just about making music.

In the early days of my concertizing, I used to have concert dreams where I would walk out on stage and play the first song or the first half, only to discover somewhere in the middle of it that I had forgotten my pants. Gaga doesn't forget her pants; she goes out on stage nearly naked. Or, I'd show up to practice on stage, and find the audience already there; I'd forgotten the time, and would just have to go with it. Meanwhile, Gaga is always on stage. My bad dreams subsided with experience, but Gaga's concerts became more nightmarish with experience — purposely, of course. Just a whole different kind of experience that I'll never really know, but it's interesting to watch.

[James Steele]

With regard to Gaga, I believe earlier in this topic I acknowledged her talent and have seen video of her back before she assumed her current bizarre public persona, performing at the piano and singing. I was quite impressed. What I lament, is that sort of talent isn't enough (at least that's what Stefani Germanotta thought) to reach the public, hence the need to be (or "act") as strange and bizarre as possible for attention.

I think Stefani could have been quite successful as a singer/pianist, but the range for that consists of approximately a handful of clubs and lounges in any given city. I can think of a few ladies who are quite popular as jazz singers on the piano, and even though they win Grammies, they aren't superstars.

The whole idea of being a superstar is something different. Music is more like the glue that holds the act together, but it's not the act. Gaga wanted to make statements and endear herself to a massive following. I'm sure she wanted to make a lot of money, too, but she honestly doesn't seem all that affected by the money. It's just a means to more ends for her. It takes guts to put yourself out there in that way. It's very lonely at the top, and only a handful of people can say they've been there. I can't imagine what that's like, actually, but I know that it's not just about making music.

In the early days of my concertizing, I used to have concert dreams where I would walk out on stage and play the first song or the first half, only to discover somewhere in the middle of it that I had forgotten my pants. Gaga doesn't forget her pants; she goes out on stage nearly naked. Or, I'd show up to practice on stage, and find the audience already there; I'd forgotten the time, and would just have to go with it. Meanwhile, Gaga is always on stage. My bad dreams subsided with experience, but Gaga's concerts became more nightmarish with experience — purposely, of course. Just a whole different kind of experience that I'll never really know, but it's interesting to watch.

No doubt. What I am saying is it takes a whole other level of "desire" to do that. You have to be willing, as she obviously was, to go out there and dress as crazy as you must and paint your face white and smear colors over your face, and act as borderline insane as possible in order to do that. In one sense, you must give up whatever illusion of dignity or self you had in pursuit of that goal. Obviously, it takes a rare individual. I'd also bet they have a "unique" psychology. And I mean that in the most euphemistic sense.

[Babz]

You forget, James, she was "born this way".

Make no mistake, that kind of stage show, whether Gaga, or Christina, or whatever, takes enormous skill. And with Gaga specifically, not that I follow or know that much about her or material, but if you look beyond it as just simply weird and insane, it's not incoherent weirdness. From what I saw on the iTunes show, there is a lot of incisive commentary on the phony media what it means to play the "star" role in the bubble, and peeling back layers of stage persona and real self .... And also, with her and her whole "monsters" thing ... every teenager who is even a little bit different feels like a monster, and she is like just about, "if I can be this out there, you can feel free to be yourself". We all went through some version of that growing up.

And of course, as the industry has gone from record sales to live as the place to make money, we should expect to see more and more elaborate stage shows. If I were looking for stage-show-over-musical-substance example, need I say "Katy Perry"? But whatever, hat's off to anyone who can make a living in what's left of the music business.

Babz

[Babz]

It was the end of the world. Have a look at that now on Youtube.

The end of the world is the unexamined life.

(to paraphrase Socrates).

[James Steele]

...if you look beyond it as just simply weird and insane, it's not incoherent weirdness.

Nope... this of course is completely "coherent."

[James Steele]

But whatever, hat's off to anyone who can make a living in what's left of the music business.

Right. And the bottom line to everything is that making lots of money is the final arbiter, right? That's a premise that I am uneasy accepting.

[Babz]

...if you look beyond it as just simply weird and insane, it's not incoherent weirdness.

Nope... this of course is completely "coherent."

Well, you clearly follow her career closer than I. I will say that this is performance art, not her stage show, and I've seen worse performance art.

[Babz]

But whatever, hat's off to anyone who can make a living in what's left of the music business.

Right. And the bottom line to everything is that making lots of money is the final arbiter, right? That's a premise that I am uneasy accepting.

No, that was my backpedaling a bit to soften my dis of Katy Perry.

[James Steele]

True. One man's performance art is another man's bizarreness. Just call me a fuddy-duddy. I'm okay with that. Different opinions makes the world more interesting.

[Babz]

I'm just saying, I don't think of Lady Gaga as an example of "anything to make a buck" -- in fact, I think it is surprising that she is a popular as she is given the avant garde aspects of her schtick. Katy Perry, just to pick an example, not to pick on her, or Taylor Swift or whatever, seems a better example of pop-sploitation over creativity.

I actually don't know that much about any of this. Most of what I know of Gaga came from that iTunes Music festival show I saw, which I only watch for "purely commercial" reasons. Always good to see what the best producers, choreographers, costume designers, lighting designers, etc. in the business can do. But after tuning in, I have to admit she was brilliant, and I found myself more engrossed than grossed out.

Gaga's problem, it would seem, is she will eventually reach a point where she will have trouble out weirding herself, like Bowie had to do when he ditched Ziggy and stripped it all down to the Thin White Duke. But so far, at least, that hasn't been a problem for her.

Babz