Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

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Babz
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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by Babz »

I mean, ever hear of "The Voluptuous Horror of Karen Black"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBUY-sTbsPQ

Or "The Toilet Boys"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-4nc4X63pY

This is the kind of thing you might see at 2AM downtown in the late 1990s-early 2000s. I'm sure Stefani/Gaga was rubbing shoulders (or other body parts) with these type of groups (though I can't say I specifically remember running into her back then, but I'm sure I knew people who knew her).

VHOKB is still around (just did a Halloween show), but still only known to the "fringe" scene. I loved these groups. Mind-blowing Unabashed NY sleaze. And I would argue just as brilliant as Gaga in their own way. So these groups fade away or remain underground, while Gaga becomes mega pop. So what does "selling out" mean in this context?

Again, just perspective, based on background ...
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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by James Steele »

BKK-OZ wrote:Even her meat outfit was a smart statement, if you take the time to understand what she was saying with the imagery/presentation, and probably even if you don't. Being provocative is often good, and gaga is great.
If you assume that everyone agrees with her politics or outlook. And politics isn't allowed on this board so I'll leave it at that.
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Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by James Steele »

I'll watch the videos later with sound when I can. If there's any obscenity or urinating on someone as performance art, I'll have to delete it. LOL There's actually acts that do that. And I think again, people will do what vs them more attention. Would we know who KISS is today based on their music if they hadn't done the over the top makeup and costuming in their day? The music was good, but they were savvy and knew they needed a hook (if the word "gimmick is too judgmental).
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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by Babz »

KISS is actually a good analogy. Another group out of NY. Like Gaga, I don't really listen to their music, but when I see them, I can't take my eyes off of them. I think there is also a lot of humor in both acts.
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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by BKK-OZ »

James Steele wrote:
BKK-OZ wrote:Even her meat outfit was a smart statement, if you take the time to understand what she was saying with the imagery/presentation, and probably even if you don't. Being provocative is often good, and gaga is great.
If you assume that everyone agrees with her politics or outlook. And politics isn't allowed on this board so I'll leave it at that.
I don't think she is looking for agreement, but she is making people think and react. Whenever I have heard her being interviewed, she has shown a lot of tolerance and respect for the opinions and perspectives of others.

BTW, I wasn't making a political statement, just pointing out that Ms gaga is intelligent and deliberate in what she is doing.
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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by Shooshie »

Babz wrote:But I just have to sit back and laugh that what should have been just another downtown junkie stripper chick somehow made it out of the scene and is now some teen icon.
Yeah, some stripper chick who just happened to have a billion dollar voice. What Tony Bennett said ain't just idle chatter coming out of an old man. The guy prefaced it with saying how lucky he'd been to hang with Sinatra, Dean Martin, and every other singer you can name, and he learned how they all did their schtick, how they made their style work, That's shop talk from one of the best recording artists ever. He went on to say that Gaga was simply beyond all of them, adding that she is the best singer in America. That's coming from a jazz icon whose career was in full swing when I was a tyke. He's sung to several generations. It's surreal to see this guy who hung with the Rat Pack, actors like Cary Grant, and who has sung for probably 10 presidents, now hanging with Lady Gaga and her family, totally blown away by her talent.

By the way, I made fun of Lady Gaga when I didn't know who she was. My daughter was also hanging in some of those clubs in New York, and she told me how wrong I was about Stefani/Gaga. I take my daughter seriously, so I looked around and found videos of Stefani singing; not Gaga. Thus began my slow learning experience. But hearing The Lady Is A Tramp with Bennett… I can safely say she blew my mind right out the top. I don't ever expect to hear anything top that, but if I do I'll be one happy dude. (and I'm not crossing categories here… obviously there are people like Leontyne Price or Cecilia Bartoli who can blow away Lady Gaga, but can they put on such a show? No, I won't cross categories. Gaga is queen of the night in pop music.

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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by Babz »

Shooshie wrote:
Babz wrote:But I just have to sit back and laugh that what should have been just another downtown junkie stripper chick somehow made it out of the scene and is now some teen icon.
Yeah, some stripper chick who just happened to have a billion dollar voice. What Tony Bennett said ain't just idle chatter coming out of an old man.[...]now hanging with Lady Gaga and her family, totally blown away by her talent.
Yes, well said, Shooshie. I have seen the duets with Tony Bennett. Tony Bennett is eternally hip.
Shooshie wrote: By the way, I made fun of Lady Gaga when I didn't know who she was.
I was thinking how, with an artist who is always evolving, it is easy to first encounter them at some snapshot moment, usually at the peak of fame, and dismiss it as facile or sophistical, not knowing the history -- like Schoenberg's 12-tone period, without knowing about his earlier Romantic period, or like when Marchel Duchamp and his readymades comes along and he just paints a moustache on the Mona Lisa (that doesn't mean he couldn't be doing serious paintings if he wants to), or Miles Davis could have just played be bop and My Funny Valentine for the rest of his life, but we would have died of boredom. And Andy Warhol was capable of much more than just copying soup cans...

As in Logic, where we have both coherence and correspondence theories of truth, in art there is both an internal validity and also its place in the wider narrative that is unfolding.
Shooshie wrote: My daughter was also hanging in some of those clubs in New York, and she told me how wrong I was about Stefani/Gaga.
Having Wikipedia-ed Gaga further, and noting her age, I realize she was probably just coming on the scene around the time I dropped out of the nightlife world. So I don't have direct experience with whatever came afterwards, but I'm sure similar groups and clubs. One thing, however, about the NYC scenes is that the punk/metal/NY-hardcore world and the dance club realm are fairly separate entities. Gaga seems to have found a way to draw on both (and several other separate jurisdictions, like performance art). When you mix too many metaphors, you can easily alienate people who live in mostly one particular frame of reference.

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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by Shooshie »

Babz wrote:usually at the peak of fame, and dismiss it as facile or sophistical, not knowing the history -- like Schoenberg's 12-tone period, without knowing about his earlier Romantic period, or like when Marchel Duchamp and his readymades comes along and he just paints a moustache on the Mona Lisa (that doesn't mean he couldn't be doing serious paintings if he wants to), or Miles Davis could have just played be bop and My Funny Valentine for the rest of his life, but we would have died of boredom. And Andy Warhol was capable of much more than just copying soup cans...
Oh, my goodness! You're in my zone now, dear! I know a few folks who thrive on those conversations. If we all ever meet at the MOTU-MAC dinner at NAMM, you're sitting at OUR table!

Nuff said!

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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by Babz »

Works for me, Shoosh.

I'm cash challenged, but I'm half tempted to try to make NAMM this year just to see my man, Todd Rundgren (another artist who cuts his own path and refuses to stand still), receive the Les Paul award:

http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/N ... Award.aspx

Best,
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Re: Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by Dan Worley »

A few years back on New Year's Eve, I was browsing different artists' websites (that let's you know how exciting my life is) -- James Taylor, Bob Dylan, Jackson Browne. I had heard about Lady Gaga but really didn't know what she was about, so I was curious and went to her website. I watched parts of three videos, the gist of which were dancers posing in awkward sexual positions. They were clothed or painted, but barely. They were demon-like in appearance, though I think a few of them were supposed to be angels. For some reason, every one of the videos had hard liquor featured in them, and the website had hard liquor bottles plastered all over it. I guess she was being sponsored by some company that makes whiskey, I don't know, but I found it quite odd and disturbing.

I didn't think about "art" or what was "hip" or "in" or what kind of "statement" was being made, or even if it were great marketing, or anything like that. I thought about all the ten-, eleven-, and twelve-year-old kids who were going to watch those videos.

Now, she can do what she wants, but I have no respect or admiration for Lady Gaga. She may be successful by today's standards, but I think she is a sellout and a horrible influence on the young people of this world. Seems like there are a lot of sellouts these days, and a lot of people who follow and promote them.
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Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball video

Post by James Steele »

Dan Worley wrote:I didn't think about "art" or what was "hip" or "in" or what kind of "statement" was being made, or even if it were great marketing, or anything like that. I thought about all the ten-, eleven-, and twelve-year-old kids who were going to watch those videos.

Now, she can do what she wants, but I have no respect or admiration for Lady Gaga. She may be successful by today's standards, but I think she is a sellout and a horrible influence on the young people of this world. Seems like there are a lot of sellouts these days, and a lot of people who follow and promote them.
As I've said earlier, I think the sentiment that financial success is the end that always justifies the means is disturbing. I'm one of those people who sees an increasing degrading of our culture via artists like Gaga, Cyrus, Madonna, etc. who use their visibility to further sexualize the culture and push and/or glorify certain behaviors/viewpoints/values, etc.

This of course has been an ongoing debate since Elvis first started swinging his hips and before. It's also hard to explore it objectively, because one's owns personal views regarding sexuality, morality, religion and even politics (which aren't really allowed to be discussed on this board) invariably come into play.

I may need to close this topic pretty soon, because for example in the original topic, whether one finds it offensive or not is really going to boil down to those things.
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