An unusual approach to basic music theory based on The Chris

[HCMarkus]

I begrudge no one of their thoughts or opinions.

Nor I. I just love the song.

Thanks for the historical perspective Frodo.

[VitcoMusic]

There's a reason why 'We Built This City' is always in the top ten of any 'worst song' list. Could it be....the lyric?


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[buzzsmith]

Honestly, I'm having a hard time finding a better song among its peers. I also struggle to find a better song in the same context from recent years. The tune is what it is as it is, whatever that is. If nothing else, it's a classic.

I love the bridge changes, especially. That was the first song as a kid in which I learned what a bridge was. Figuring out those modulating two-five turnarounds was a lesson in futility at first attempt.

That reminds me of one of the first times that I tried to figure out a melody and chord changes by ear. "Take Five" was the tune. What I didn't know was (as was the custom to have a home piano tuning last longer) that out little family Baldwin Acrosonic was tuned a half step flat...and 10' from the record player. Back and forth...back and forth, etc.

Buzzy

[Prime Mover]

I've noticed that A LOT of old recordings are almost a quarter-tone off. I remember trying to learn "Painted Black" by the Stones, I found it was almost exactly a quarter tone off, I had to just pick one of two keys (forget which key it's "in"), and go with it, but it made transcription a dog.

Maybe some of you who were in the biz back when it was analog tape could enlighten us. Was it tape slowdown? Or did they just not bother tuning to A440?

[crduval]

Yep-- It was Torme who did the classic track for an early Flintstones' episode in which Fred as pop singer Hi-Fi sang "Listen To The Mocking Bird". It was a cartoon, but that track was top shelf-- an eternal lesson in how to write for a big band. I still refer to it all these years later from all those years ago.

Oh wow! Frodo that is great! I never knew that was Mel Torme.

"Listen to the mockin' bird, he's hip!"
"Listen to the mockin' bird, he swings!"

That little gem has been stuck in my head for over 40 years!! Too funny:D

Chris


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[MIDI Life Crisis]

Here ya go........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc9ZPPyVn7g

[MIDI Life Crisis]

According to the link it's not Tormé but maybe he was under a psudonym?

Duke Mitchell is doing the singing, though Alan Reed was Fred's speaking voice. The musicians included guys from Count Basie's Orchestra.

[buzzsmith]

I've noticed that A LOT of old recordings are almost a quarter-tone off. I remember trying to learn "Painted Black" by the Stones, I found it was almost exactly a quarter tone off, I had to just pick one of two keys (forget which key it's "in"), and go with it, but it made transcription a dog.

Maybe some of you who were in the biz back when it was analog tape could enlighten us. Was it tape slowdown? Or did they just not bother tuning to A440?

It's my understanding that, after the fact, some producers would decide that the mixed track needed to be brighter in tempo and would slightly vari-speed up the track. (Of course, a slow down was also a possibility.)

One example of being sharper than key is Neil Diamond's "Sweet Caroline" recorded at American Sound in Memphis. It's definitely in B (why?!!) but the actual release is a bit sharper than B. And this studio had some of the finest musicians (The Memphis Boys) that played on hundreds of chart topping singles. And they used a Hammond B-3 which (by design) is always A=440 unless you wanted a power down kinda random drop in pitch which was not that often used and not constant...an effect.

Buzzy

[bayswater]

It could be a lot simpler. If a band was all drums, bass and guitars, you could tune to yourself. The lowest note I can hum is the low E on a guitar, so that's how I always tuned, and so I'm probably usually out a quarter tone or so a lot of the time. Now I have a nice antique silver plated tuning fork, so as long as it's not too hot or cold, I'm in tune.

[Frodo]

According to the link it's not Tormé but maybe he was under a psudonym?

Duke Mitchell is doing the singing, though Alan Reed was Fred's speaking voice. The musicians included guys from Count Basie's Orchestra.

How 'bout that? I recall an old interview with Torme talking about this track, so it wasn't my intent to get this wrong. Perhaps he scored the arrangement? That said, I've not been able to officially confirm Duke Mitchell as the singer as he is just as uncredited as Torme is. I know of Duke Mitchell the actor, and he was a good singer. Hmm.

Whatever the case, the two voices are frighteningly similar, if they are indeed two different voices. Spooky.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I was convinced it was the Velvet Fog and thought it might be some kind of Tom Foolery. Had it not been listed in the Youtube as such, I'd have guessed Tormé. Those cats could swing!