Slate VBC will change your life

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David Polich
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Slate VBC will change your life

Post by David Polich »

Well, it changed mine, anyway. I finally got around to seriously putting
Slate's Virtual Bus Compressors through their paces, on the master bus of a mix I've been working on.

I wasn't prepared for such a spectacular difference. Whereas other bus compressor plug-ins claim to "glue" the mix together, I've tried all of them,
including UAD's Neve and SSL bus comps, Waves V-Comp, Cytomic's The Glue, Stillwell's Bombardier, Nomad Max Warm, whatever that thing is that PSP makes, Oxford Inflator..and while a couple came close to what I was hoping for, I hadn't found the "holy grail" until VBC.

"Glue-ing" together a mix is rather hard to put into words, but you'll know
it when you hear it, and VBC delivers - three "flavors", too - SSL, what I
think is a Focusrite Red, and a Fairchild 670. They aren't strict emulations, the VBC comps are modeled on them but Slate added some unique
tweaks. The biggest test of any bus comp is to see if it still improves the sound when you drop the makeup gain back to zero so the bypassed level is the same as the active level. And VBC does this - set any of the gains back to 0.0 db, bypass the plug, listen, then enable it...magical world of difference, but no real change in level.

What bums me is that I mixed so many projects without VBC, and it makes me
want to go back and re-do those.

Can't recommend this plug-in bundle enough. Don't take my word for it - there's a free 14-day demo (you need an i-Lok) at Slate's website.


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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by FMiguelez »

David, one question...

Do you usually mix "into" your master bus compressor (by putting it there from the beginning of the mix process), or do you mix normally and put this compressor at the end as a finishing touch?

I will definitely check out this compressor you are recommending.

Thank you for the info 8)
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by David Polich »

FMiguelez wrote:David, one question...

Do you usually mix "into" your master bus compressor (by putting it there from the beginning of the mix process), or do you mix normally and put this compressor at the end as a finishing touch?

I will definitely check out this compressor you are recommending.

Thank you for the info 8)
Normally I mix and then put the compressor on at the end. Not always,
but I like to make the mix as good as I can without anything on the
master bus, then add the bus comp.
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by Kubi »

Word and word!

VBC is a new level of software compression. I really do think it's a hint of the quality of things to come.

re. mixing into a buss compressor:

To me personally, mixing into a preset compressor is like mixing into a master EQ. Putting the cart before the horse. How would you know how to set the compressor before the mix is finished? So then, if you mix into a compressor and the settings aren't optimized for the mix because the mix doesn't exist yet, aren't you simply trying to compensate for a slightly off setting on the buss compressor, thereby messing up the mix in the first place? In other words, if the buss compressor were a mastering EQ and it was set to boost the highs at 14k, wouldn't that cause you to lower 14k in those elements in the mix that should be carrying them, because you are essentially mixing into a distorted version of reality?

Needless to say, I never mix into a buss compressor. I always build the mix from the ground up - I get everything into a good place using levels and pan ONLY, then I start applying EQ and compression to individual tracks, then I start applying compression and EQ to subgroups like drumkit or background vocals, then I add time-based processing where needed, and only at the very very end apply anything to busses.

As Ronan Chris Murphy says, you have to be able to get the mix to a point that makes you smile using nothing but pan and level. If you can't do that, you need to fix the elements until you can. Then proceed with processing. Words I live by.
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by David Polich »

Kubi wrote:Word and word!

VBC is a new level of software compression. I really do think it's a hint of the quality of things to come.

re. mixing into a buss compressor:

To me personally, mixing into a preset compressor is like mixing into a master EQ. Putting the cart before the horse. How would you know how to set the compressor before the mix is finished? So then, if you mix into a compressor and the settings aren't optimized for the mix because the mix doesn't exist yet, aren't you simply trying to compensate for a slightly off setting on the buss compressor, thereby messing up the mix in the first place? In other words, if the buss compressor were a mastering EQ and it was set to boost the highs at 14k, wouldn't that cause you to lower 14k in those elements in the mix that should be carrying them, because you are essentially mixing into a distorted version of reality?

Needless to say, I never mix into a buss compressor. I always build the mix from the ground up - I get everything into a good place using levels and pan ONLY, then I start applying EQ and compression to individual tracks, then I start applying compression and EQ to subgroups like drumkit or background vocals, then I add time-based processing where needed, and only at the very very end apply anything to busses.

As Ronan Chris Murphy says, you have to be able to get the mix to a point that makes you smile using nothing but pan and level. If you can't do that, you need to fix the elements until you can. Then proceed with processing. Words I live by.
I agree 1000%.

An excellent mix engineer once told me, "I know the mix is good when I'm
no longer tense about it". That's a motto I've always tried to live by.

I figure if I get the mix sounding great, then finishing it off with a
bus compressor is like putting the icing on the cake. If the cake itself tastes bad, adding a delicious icing isn't going to save it.
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Dan Worley
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by Dan Worley »

I can hardly wait to try VBC (now that iLok is fixed), but I just can't right now. I'll also have to wait for another sale because I doubt I'll be able to resist buying them right after trying them.

As far as mixing into a main buss compressor, I learned the hard way. I fell into that trap by going back and making small corrections to mixes with the compressor on. That always seemed to snowball into more and more drastic changes and wrestling matches. It finally dawned on me why I was having such a tough time of it. Lesson learned. However, there are times I will leave the compressor on on purpose, because I love what it's doing to the overall mix and I don't want to change it in any way, so I make the mix adjustments to fit and work with what the compressor is set to. Another example of there being no rules. But to start off a mix with a buss compressor on is just nuts in my non-rule book.
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by mikehalloran »

I can hardly wait to try VBC (now that iLok is fixed), but I just can't right now. I'll also have to wait for another sale because I doubt I'll be able to resist buying them right after trying them.
So it's $249 and they include an iLok 2 if you have the package shipped ... and you say they sometimes run a sale?

Uhhh... keep me in the loop, boys and girls! :woohoo:


I'm ok with really liking a product or improving my mixes or my workflow. I have been through some major life changing moments and, as good as this may be...
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by Dan Worley »

mikehalloran wrote:
I can hardly wait to try VBC (now that iLok is fixed), but I just can't right now. I'll also have to wait for another sale because I doubt I'll be able to resist buying them right after trying them.
So it's $249 and they include an iLok 2 if you have the package shipped ... and you say they sometimes run a sale?

Uhhh... keep me in the loop, boys and girls! :woohoo:


I'm ok with really liking a product or improving my mixes or my workflow. I have been through some major life changing moments and, as good as this may be...
Yeah, Slate has quite a few sales through the year, some really good ones. They had an intro price on VBC for some weeks after it was released, but I couldn't check it out then so I had to pass (what incredible will power).

I already have a few iLok2s so I don't need that deal.
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by buzzsmith »

And, if I read correctly, one doesn't get a discount without the iLok. Both the download version and the shipped version are the same $249.00.

Buzzy


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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by philbrown »

I just bought VBC and so far am pretty underwhelmed but I definitely need to keep working with it.

As regards mixing into a bus comp - lest anyone reading take the above opinions as absolute, I just watched a Pensado's Place yesterday where Chris Lord-Alge said he mixes into a (hardware) Focusrite Red 3. It's more or less permanently on his 2 bus. In fact it might be his Red 3 that Fabrice analyzed since they supposedly use "golden units" but that part is just my speculation.

Scroll to 17:02 where CLA talks about mixing into the Red 3:
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by Phil O »

Kubi wrote:...because you are essentially mixing into a distorted version of reality...
I think this is the best explanation I've heard to date. I, too, never mix to compression, EQ, or anything else on the master buss. I've just never been able to voice my reasoning as eloquently and Kubi. 8)

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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by philbrown »

Phil O wrote:
Kubi wrote:...because you are essentially mixing into a distorted version of reality...
I think this is the best explanation I've heard to date. I, too, never mix to compression, EQ, or anything else on the master buss. I've just never been able to voice my reasoning as eloquently and Kubi. 8)

Phil
I'm not trying to argue the rightness or wrongness of either method, but I definitely see the other side too. I just had a project mastered and it changed the instrument relationships within the mix. By mixing into a master comp you can hear it's effect while you're mixing and the mix instrument relationships won't be shifted by adding it later. Both methods make equal sense to me logically.

As far as VBC specifically, I thought it was literally a "bus compressor" and to me "bus" could mean drum bus, vocal bus, master bus etc. But now that I have it and just browsing through the presets it appears it was only really meant to be "Master bus compressor". The name seems misleading to me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by Phil O »

philbrown wrote:I'm not trying to argue the rightness or wrongness of either method, but I definitely see the other side too. I just had a project mastered and it changed the instrument relationships within the mix.
I think the mastering engineer should have given you a heads up on that. The guy I use (http://www.peerlessmastering.com) will do an evaluation, if you request it, before proceeding with the job. If there's any tweaking that would best be done in the mixing phase, he'll consult with you and get things ironed out before doing his magic.

As far as the rightness or wrongness of mixing into a compressor, I hear what you're saying. In the end I will always default to the wise old saying, "If it sounds right it is right." I was simply stating my approach and how it agrees with Kubi's. I kind of get what Chris Lord-Alge was saying, and I understand that he's created some great mixes, but his approach doesn't work for me. Just sayin'.

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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by FMiguelez »

I definitely see what you guys are saying and it makes sense.

The reason I asked is because some engineers, like Charles Dye, swear by mixing into a master compressor. Some of the Groove3 videos I've been watching also do this a lot, so there seems to be no consensus on this.
Kubi wrote:... In other words, if the buss compressor were a mastering EQ and it was set to boost the highs at 14k, wouldn't that cause you to lower 14k in those elements in the mix that should be carrying them, because you are essentially mixing into a distorted version of reality?
That really stroke a chord here. That would make me press the Like button if we had one.


Guess I'll have to try it for myself when I get a suitable project for this, minding what Kubi wrote...

Thanks for the good discussion, guys 8)
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Re: Slate VBC will change your life

Post by Prime Mover »

Ahhh, this is an example of the thing I was talking about in the harmony mixing thread. I essentially agree with the consensus, but to play devil's advocate: what if the mix isn't the best mix for the bus compressor? Maybe there happens to be a situation in which the best final product calls for a mix that is not quite as good on it's own, something about it makes it really shine when married with the bus compressor, and the two are better than the sum of their parts. Whose to say that the best mix for the final process is one that stands on it's own the best? One philosophy is that the two should always be working together to become the best combined effort, regardless of how good they are individually. However, this is probably a much more difficult approach, eve if it could potentially yield better results.

I'll add that I don't mix with the bus compressor on.
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