Professional Ears Requested

[Phil O]

I didn't post this in the Showcase Forum because this is NOT my work.

A good friend of mine is a retired opera singer and this is one of her students:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpxSQp7IyYU

She sent me this link and asked two questions:
What do you think of her performance?
What do you think of the recording?

I haven't answered her yet and was wondering how some of you folks might answer those questions. Be honest. Like I said, it's not my work.
The video chokes at about 2 minutes, but you shouldn't need to listen to that much to get the idea.

Phil

[stubbsonic]

I'm no expert on this style of music, but will offer my initial impressions. She has a strong voice and a good sound overall. There were very minor pitch issues, the most noticeable one being at about 35 seconds in.

The quality of the voice recording seemed a little less than stellar. I'm not sure if it was the type of compression used, or if the mic itself was being driven a bit hard. Something seemed a bit smashed on the very loudest notes.

The room sound was natural but a bit small seeming. I know there is often a "purist" aesthetic. I might have added a slight amount of hall reverb to help replicate a concert performance.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I like her voice. Very nice tone, overall. She seems to over stress the arpeggios a little for my taste and they don't seem as well articulated as the recitative sections.

Personally, I've found that when people are asking for your opinion, they really want you praise. When they ask for your criticism, they're really asking for your opinion.

[mikehalloran]

I hate to be asked that. I have no idea where this person is in her training or career - nor frankly is it any concern of mine. I have never heard of her, don't know her and have not paid money to see her (but if I had I'd be disappointed).

I'll leave it at pleasant but not ready for the big time. Unlike the singer who has defined the role for the past twenty years::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVZNx39xYiA

The recording is adequate but nothing spectacular which is just as well as there is nothing extraordinary to record.

[Shooshie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrhgwHwS1gk

We have to ask "compared to whom?" Is this lady attempting a doctoral recital, a city opera, or is she trying to go with the pros? Those are vastly different standards. So, I posted a link to the best. Cecilia Bartoli is beyond reproach and supremely musical. All you have to do is listen and compare. I'm afraid our friend is several ball parks away from this standard.

The student is lagging on attacks, lacking expression of the musical line, strains to get the high notes and hurries through them as well as the technical passages, where Bartoli relaxes and takes her time to express no matter the difficulty of the range or technique. The student's trills are very lacking. She starts them, but breaks into a narrow vibrato. Trills have to be much broader. And I'm going to stop there. Cecilia puts it all into perspective.

By the way, I've heard Cecilia sing this and many other great works live. My pianist has accompanied her at La Scala and other venues, and regularly accompanies great singers from the Met, or for Met auditions. I say "my" pianist, as we used to work together constantly when she wasn't playing with those amazing musicians. I got to know the opera world pretty well back then, when Cecilia was still a rising star. I studied vocal music and musicians in order to learn woodwind technique as it was NOT being taught. You had to turn to these people, violinists, and pianists to really learn music. The level of teaching in the woodwinds is woefully inadequate world-wide. Vocal pedagogy, on the other hand, is exacting and extremely high-pressure. There is a lot of money waiting for those who reach the top echelons of opera. (Unlike woodwinds, where a virtuoso of Cecilia's calibre is treated as an anomaly and often ignored.)

To put it very straightforwardly, the voice student probably should find a backup line of work and do this as an enjoyable hobby. I do not want to discourage her or anyone else, for music is a personal thing, and you don't have to be Cecilia Bartoli to enjoy it or bring enjoyment to others. But if you want to compare with "professional ears," you've got to face the facts. The student has put in a lot of time and effort, but not with the rigor and drive that the big leagues require. She needs four years of extreme practice with a top coach to get across the gulf that separates her from that level. Can she do it? With a tape recorder and constant self-appraisal, and if she has the talent, maybe. But her instrument has not begun to be developed. This should have happened when she was in her teens and early 20s. I wish her luck, but moreover, I wish her enjoyment of music. If she's going to beat herself with this severe rod, it is not going to be enjoyable unless she DOES cross that gulf, so either put in the work or accept where she is and just enjoy singing music a little less demanding.

Shooshie

[mikehalloran]

So, I posted a link to the best. Cecilia Bartoli ... By the way, I've heard Cecilia sing this and many other great works live.

Ha! My link was to her as well - not the same link as yours, though. I've heard her sing the role three times in San Francisco and other roles as well. We don't get to see her anymore.


Young singers, especially sopranos and tenors, often put themselves the competition wars not knowing the Big Secret: If you're good enough, there is plenty of work - I mean great, huge gobs of 'there are not enough people who can do it' work to go around. The Met auditions sometimes do not award a prize because no one was good enough that year. All of the regional and European companies send scouts looking for new singers with raw undeveloped talent that they can get cheap now hoping to develop into something special later. If you are good enough, you work.

"Good enough" means you have an instrument, of course. It also means that you learn roles, show up to rehearsals, learn enough languages to get around and rehearse, get along with your co-workers, directors and agents, be healthy enough, be reliable, take care of your money...

The face value on my season tickets is $99. Times 2 times the number of performances plus our contribution to San Francisco Opera plus parking and lunch or dinner (we do Sunday matinee series) is what enjoyment of the season costs us. That's a lot of money and we expect singers of a certain caliber - and often we are disappointed. We rarely get the stars anymore so when we hear an unknown with a radiant voice it is a real treat. Often, however, we settle for
good enough and wonder why we pay so much money for mediocrity. The voice in the OP would never make the San Francisco Opera Chorus unless she were a contralto.

True contraltos and deep basses can write their own tickets if they are any good. I know.

Speaking for myself, I knew since I was in my late teens that when I hit my 50s, I was going to have a major operatic career if I wanted one as a deep bass. This was my plan. I worked, learned roles. I did not want to be an opera gypsy while my children were young so I took day jobs. I saw how young singers could burn out especially those who smoked. I made a conscious decision. My voice progressed and did not disappoint. Every few years, I sang some roles. When I was 46, I had the opportunity to sing Wotan with full orchestra (a bass-baritone role - what never smoking did for me). I had sung in large houses before but this was the acid test. Even if it was not stellar, the world of opera is filled with smaller roles for bass and the singer who specializes can make a handsome living being Angelotti in Tosca or Raimundo in Lucia... hey, you can't mount a production without those old guys, right?

Then, 5 years ago, my younger daughter entered college, I was starting to use the connections I made, secure engagements, wonder when it was time to quit my day job. And then while moving some furniture, I developed a limp - two hours later I was paralyzed from a stroke and in the hospital for five months. I also lost my ability to sing completely for a year. Oooops. Well there went that.

It's now been four and a half years. My voice is back as is the power I once had. My breathing, however, is compromised by diaphragm muscles that will never function again - like most of my left side. My stamina is shot to hell and I cannot walk without a cane. It's been 13 years since I sang The Wanderer in Siegfried. I have the notes but cannot sustain a Wagnerian vocal line - I could use the spear to prop myself up, I suppose. I also have grave doubts that I could ever learn a role again.

I will step onto a stage this October for the first time since that Siegfried. I have agreed to sing Roderick in a production of Ruddigore. I am fairly confident that I can re-learn a part that I last sang for them in 1992. I auditioned after looking at the painting (R. is a painting that comes to life) and remembering that they made me use a cane 21 years ago. I can breathe more often singing Gilbert and Sullivan. The last time I sang the big aria, "When the Night Wind Howls" was in a Grove of redwoods in July, 2003 for a night of ghost stories. That night, my accompanist also named Michael Halloran.

Fortunately, my day job figured out a place for me - good thing as I'll never be able to get another.

[Shooshie]

What a story! Thanks for sharing that, Mike. And it's great to know you're a classically trained musician, too. I've known for some time that the stroke partially disabled you, and many times have marveled that you haven't let it stop you completely, but I had no idea the true cost of it. Still, you're enjoying music, and you're able to use your talent at a level that some people never reach.

For years my wife and I had season tickets to the opera. We saw a lot of opera that way. I'm not sure why we stopped. The last time we went was about 5 years ago, and it was a thoroughly enjoyable evening. Now we have a new opera hall, and it is a wonderful venue. The irony is that we talked for years and years about how much we'd love to hear the Dallas Opera in a dedicated opera hall instead of the giant fan-shaped hall at Fair Park. Now we have the hall we always dreamed of, and they even took it far beyond our wildest dreams. But we haven't been there for a single opera. We've been to look around, but never for a concert. It's been about 4 years now, and I think it's time we did something about this. This fall I'm going to buy opera tickets. Opera is my favorite art form. I really miss it.

Shooshie

[Phil O]

Thanks guys for your candid comments. I didn't voice my views in the original post so as not to influence your responses in any way, but you have successfully echoed my thoughts. The bottom line is she's not ready for prime time. As far as the recording is concerned, if it had been my work, I would be hesitant to let it out of the studio.

My friend, Normma, (http://bit.ly/1cCVRbr) is not well known, but has had an impressive career nonetheless. Her student, Olga, is convinced that she is ready for a career in opera and is not finishing her training with Normma. Sad. Normma has put a lot of hard work into this young lady and now it's going to hell in a hand basket.

Now for a sit-down with Normma. This should be fun.

Phil

[Phil O]

And Mike, thanks for sharing your story. I've had a bout with some medical issues an I know how devastating it can be. Wishing you a brighter future. Glad to hear you're singing again. Onward and upward, my friend.

Phil

[Shooshie]

Thanks guys for your candid comments. I didn't voice my views in the original post so as not to influence your responses in any way, but you have successfully echoed my thoughts. The bottom line is she's not ready for prime time. As far as the recording is concerned, if it had been my work, I would be hesitant to let it out of the studio.

My friend, Normma, (http://bit.ly/1cCVRbr) is not well known, but has had an impressive career nonetheless. Her student, Olga, is convinced that she is ready for a career in opera and is not finishing her training with Normma. Sad. Normma has put a lot of hard work into this young lady and now it's going to hell in a hand basket.

Now for a sit-down with Normma. This should be fun.

Phil

Music students. If only the human psyche had an "off" switch on the ego. With music it's a multi-faceted problem. At some point, musicianship dawns on the student. It's like that opening in Also Sprach Zarathustra: suddenly it all becomes clear. For the first time you're really "speaking" music. You actually understand it. The mind thinks that all it has to do is reproduce that musical understanding, and it will all come out beautifully as you hear it in the mind's ear. What the mind does not understand is that it has not found all the controls to the machine that is the body, and even if it did, it doesn't understand how they work.

For one example, and it's an amazing one, listen to Cecilia Bartoli singing those rapid semiquaver passages starting at 5:35 of Non piu mesta. Every note has its shape and pitch. It's quite breathtaking to hear, but to produce? It's downright exhausting, and it's not easy to do. But when Cecilia does it, she's found that balance of all systems in her body that, when held just so, produce it with seeming effortless lyricism. You can SEE her balancing everything. It's so exciting to watch (and to hear) that it brings tears to my eyes! What the average listener doesn't know, however, is that her body is changing constantly. That balance of forces you hear at the beginning of those lines is not like the balance you hear at the end of those lines. She has to constantly adjust to the body's desire to stop moving. Then, in another system entirely, she has to adjust to her body's desire to have plenty of oxygen. That is, one has to learn how to keep working under oxygen deprivation, same as if one just had a whiff of pure O2.

Then there is the issue of actually stopping and nailing the pitch of each of those notes.

Now, listen to the student. When she does those passages, her pitch is like a slide whistle. She has timed her slides to coincide with the semiquavers, but she does not stop on each note; the pitch continues to slide up and down the whistle. She gives each note a very tiny kick, and the listener gets the idea; these are semiquavers going up and down the scale. The listener's mind wraps all that up and keeps listening, trying to discern the music in it. It's ok. You can hear it.

But go back to Cecilia again. Hear those big sounds on each note? They have an attack and a release. The pitch sustains with the note. No slide whistle there. No roller coaster ride up and down the scales. These are discreet quanta, pitches that ARE what is written, not merely approximating what is written.

How can Olga get to where Cecilia is? It's the same as the old question, "how do you get to Carnegie Hall?" Practice! But there are a thousand problems to be solved, and each one requires teaching yourself to do that particular thing naturally, without having to think about it. And I said "thousands." That's a conservative estimate. You know you've arrived when you encounter new problems and can solve them in real time. Your brain has found the controls of the body and has learned how to constantly adjust to tired muscles and carbon dioxide. THEN, you just have to hope you haven't forgotten that Zarathustra moment when the musical language became clear to you. You pray that in practicing, you haven't beaten your musical sense into submission. You've got to be able to listen to that little bird in your head, singing the lines in a way that excites you, while your mind tells your body to do all that stuff, and your body performs like the athlete you have become. It's like painting a Rembrandt while running a marathon. Really.

And that is what Olga has not learned.

Shooshie

[crduval]

Mike that was a hell of a story. That must have been devastating to have gone through, and its inspiring to hear that you have come out of it in the way you have. I wish you all the best and I'm grateful for you sharing such an amazing example of resilience and mental toughness.

Chris


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[Phil O]

Shooshie, you're spot on as always. Yes, Bartoli's performance is breathtaking. It's amazing that what she does is even physically possible. I'm not a big opera fan but when I listen to a performance like that I'm in total awe.

Phil

On another note, my first gig with the new band is tonight. I hope MY performance is respectable.

[Shooshie]

On another note, my first gig with the new band is tonight. I hope MY performance is respectable.

Either your gig is over or currently winding down (possibly loading up the truck). I hope it went well, and if so I wish you many more like it. There's nothing like playing for people who want to be there.

[Phil O]

Thanks Shoosh. The night went great. Tough gig though - stuff comes at you fast and it's sink or swim. Luckily I was in good swimming form and I made it through the night unscathed. This is going to be a fun gig with tons of work on the calendar, good music with lots of big band charts, and (from what I can tell so far) a great bunch of people to work with.

Phil

[Shooshie]

Thanks Shoosh. The night went great. Tough gig though - stuff comes at you fast and it's sink or swim. Luckily I was in good swimming form and I made it through the night unscathed. This is going to be a fun gig with tons of work on the calendar, good music with lots of big band charts, and (from what I can tell so far) a great bunch of people to work with.

Phil

Man, I'm envious! Well, you've earned such a place in the gig pecking order. May the good times flow!

Shoosh