I get angry and depressed by Sound On Sound...

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:42 pm

Just got the November 2010 issue in the mail. Yet again the ONLY way you'd know Digital Performer even exists is the big Sweewater ad in the last two pages of the magazine. (Thank you Sweetwater!) Apart from that, it's as if we don't even exist.

Case in point: an article on page 160 called "The 64-bit Future." On page 161 one they provide a chart showing different DAWs and their 64 bit compatibility. It looks like this (screenshot from SOS's electronic edition):

DO YOU FREAKIN' NOTICE ANYTHING MISSING???!!!

And of course their DAW-specific "Technique" section for November looks like this:

TECHNIQUE / REASON p.146-147
TECHNIQUE / SONAR p.148-149
TECHNIQUE / LOGIC p.150-151
TECHNIQUE / LIVE p.152-153
TECHNIQUE / REAPER p.154-155
TECHNIQUE / CUBASE p.156-157
TECHNIQUE / PRO TOOLS p.158-159

Honestly, I remember how when Waves was not being helpful toward DP issues we started a thread about alternatives to Wave plugs. I think it's going to be time to try and find alternatives to SOS magazine.

I have to seriously consider the notion that Sound On Sound does not want the business of Digital Performer users at this point. As the 64-bit chart seems to indicate, they're don't recognize that we exist. I'm not sure when my SOS subscription runs out. I renewed on the assumption we'd get Performer notes every other month. I'm just tired of being dissed. Hey... if it's a UK magazine and DP isn't as popular over there, fine. But they're selling magazines HERE too. My magazine says USA Edition right at the top. They might want to acknowledge Digital Performer users just a little. Would it kill them? Apparently so.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:19 pm

In fairness, James, the list was about 64-bit DAWs. It's no crime that DP is not yet 64-bit. It is, however, understandably disquieting whenever there is some reason to eliminate DP from a list based on a single feature rather than overall functionality as if the whole world is ready for 64-bit.

Chin up, dude. There are caveats with these other apps in 64-bit mode. When MOTU puts DPs 64-bit tail on the line it will be in good time and for good reason.

That's not to say that the November issue didn't discriminate!!

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:44 pm

Interesting. I understood it to be a reference chart for DAW users to be able to look up their particular daw and see if it was a) "...64-bit compatible?" and b) "64-bit native?"

I'm not sure what "compatible" means here... I'll have to refer to the article, but I'm guessing that you can launch and run DP when booted in 64-bit mode and it will still run? Or does it mean something else? If so, then what is meant by "native" in that context? I'm thinking that DP has to be 64-bit "native" to access more than 4GB, but "64-bit" compatible to run when booted in the 64-bit mode?

We know DP is not 64-bit native. If it is 64-bit compatible then it should be listed as "Yes No" and make the chart. If it is not 64-bit compatible, then it should be "No No" and then I could see why it isn't included.

BTW, I remember you saying something that these early 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 machines I like got have some sort of limitation on the 64-bit compatibility. Can you explain that to me if you have time?

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:08 pm

There was an issue with OpenGL vs OpenCL graphics addressing. What all this means is likely beyond the pail where DP is concerned. Macs with Duo Core CPUs most likely (ie: cannot) boot in 64-bit mode. This was an item of confusion when SL was first released. We knew that PPCs were being orphaned, but I had just picked up an almighty MacPro and discovered shortly thereafter that it had also been orphaned (in part) to my surprise. My laptop will boot in 64-bit mode, but my 2007/08 desktop will not. That any MacPro would not be able to take full advantage of all Apple boasted about SL would not have looked good from a marketing standpoint, so it was (imho) kept conspicuously quiet.

Let me say that I can indeed boot AND run DP 7.21 successfully in 64-bit mode even though it's not native. To that extent, I agree that SOS was at the very least irresponsible or inconsiderate for leaving DP off that list, but perhaps at the time that article was written before 7.21 was available. I honestly cannot tell you which version of DP7 would first boot in 64-bit mode, so perhaps SOS did not have that version of DP at the time.

I still have all versions of DP7 on my Core 2 Duo and would be happy to confirm which versions will boot inside SL's 64-bit kernel.

Still-- I will not let some company's oversight harsh my mellow. I'm actually surprised SOS included DP in their poll at all for how they've benched DP in recent months.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:20 pm

Frodo wrote:There was an issue with OpenGL vs OpenCL graphics addressing. What all this means is likely beyond the pail where DP is concerned. Macs with Duo Core CPUs most likely (ie: cannot) boot in 64-bit mode. This was an item of confusion when SL was first released. We knew that PPCs were being orphaned, but I had just picked up an almighty MacPro and discovered shortly thereafter that it had also been orphaned (in part) to my surprise. My laptop will boot in 64-bit mode, but my 2007/08 desktop will not. That any MacPro would not be able to take full advantage of all Apple boasted about SL would not have looked good from a marketing standpoint, so it was (imho) kept conspicuously quiet.

Let me say that I can indeed boot AND run DP 7.21 successfully in 64-bit mode even though it's not native. To that extent, I agree that SOS was at the very least irresponsible or inconsiderate for leaving DP off that list, but perhaps at the time that article was written before 7.21 was available. I honestly cannot tell you which version of DP7 would first boot in 64-bit mode, so perhaps SOS did not have that version of DP at the time.

I still have all versions of DP7 on my Core 2 Duo and would be happy to confirm which versions will boot inside SL's 64-bit kernel.

Still-- I will not let some company's oversight harsh my mellow. I'm actually surprised SOS included DP in their poll at all for how they've benched DP in recent months.

Ahh... so my Mac Pro 1,1 won't boot into 64-bit. Oh well...

I don't know which version was able to boot in 64-bit mode, thus being "compatible," but then if it was 7.0 or at least a version no more than 3 months old, then I will stand by my position that DP should have been included in that list.

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:25 pm

James Steele wrote: Ahh... so my Mac Pro 1,1 won't boot into 64-bit. Oh well...

Yep-- Duo Cores are early dinosaurs. Trick or treat!!

James Steele wrote: I don't know which version was able to boot in 64-bit mode, thus being "compatible," but then if it was 7.0 or at least a version no more than 3 months old, then I will stand by my position that DP should have been included in that list.

Note my bold emphasis! If SOS published that article at any time after DP7 was released, it was irresponsible and inconsiderate without question.

FWIW-- I just booted DP 7.02 in 64-bit mode without incident-- and ran an audio edit project with no problems.

I still say keep your chin up-- unless you want to take a trip to London with me in the near future!!

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:59 pm

Hehe... I'm mulling around ideas for a little DP activism at NAMM!! LOL Last year, SOS had a small space right across from the MOTU booth. I wanted to go over there and point to the booth and say "See that. That's a company called MOTU. They make a DAW called (speaking slowly now) Di..gih-tal Purr-forrr-merr. Have you guys heard of it???"

twistedtom · Post by **twistedtom** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:05 am

Does SOS focus on PC users?

Guitar Gaz · Post by **Guitar Gaz** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:49 am

I must admit reading SOS this month I felt the same anger - and regret renewing my subscription. The space the mag gives to Cockos Reaper (including the Mix Rescue) and then the crap sections on video/film which clearly does not belong in this magazine leaves me angry that some space could not be found for DP. I see they appear to have quietly dropped the Guitar section which was embarrassing - best leave that to Guitarist magazine. And what is Cockos Reaper's main reason for success in the market? Oh yeah you can use it for free or at a ridiculously undercutting price based on using other software developers work as their "inspiration". Just look at the section on Reaper this week which tells you how to recreate a DR Octo Rex Loop player from Reason. Is this a sustainable and an ethical business model? And yet SOS is sponsoring this software by the space and credibility they give them. I shall be complaining to SOS again and choosing my words carefully as they get very defensive. And finally refusing to renew my subscription.

I think Motu must take some of the blame for not putting more commercial pressure on SOS like the other companies do and indeed building up cosy relationships - but then Motu always seem to be poor at PR and pushing themselves forward and are not a cosy type company - perhaps they are naiive. They need to highlight a few prominent users of DP and get them to promote DP more so that SOS can't ignore it any more. I must admit I won't miss SOS much as I skim through most articles now (another $5000 monophonic synthesiser anyone?) and find the new emphasis on video as ridiculous. I go to a website called Music Radar that operates on the Reaper model - its free and you can read about the new equipment and software as it comes out - SOS is at least a month behind. And I guess that is SOS's problem - you Reap(er) as you sow.....

TheHopiWay · Post by **TheHopiWay** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:11 am

twistedtom wrote:Does SOS focus on PC users?

The entire world focuses on PC Users.

Guitar Gaz · Post by **Guitar Gaz** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:21 am

I just posted this to the SOS Magazine Feedback Forum -

Complaint About Content
#871686 - 30/10/10 02:18 PM
Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote

As a MOTU Digital Performer user I am getting more frustrated that you ignore this DAW - 7.21 is the best version yet which aside from great audio manipulation tools including a great and easy to use Audio Pitch Correction editing function and other deep editing functions, allows users to customise their interface with Themes.

Yet you give acres of print space to Video production which many agree doesn't belong in this magazine. At least you seem to have silently dropped the Guitar section which is best left to the experts like Guitarist magazine and others.

But worse is the constant promotion of Cockos Reaper which has a business model which strikes me as somewhat questionable - your article this month on how to copy a Propellerhead Reason Dr Octo Rex looper in Reaper leaves a nasty taste in the mouth - anyone else find this approach somewhat uncomfortable? Hey, next month copy an NN-XT and then we won't need to spend money on Reason when we can get Reaper for free (or almost for free).

I speak as an SOS reader right from when the magazine first started, and a long time subscriber. "Hope you like our new direction" could be an apt quote here. Well this SOS subscriber doesn't....

--------------------
Guitar Gaz

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:46 am

yeah it is depressing that SOS does not feature DP enough but it is still better than the other magazines.
I used to subscribe to EM and Keyboard both are not worth the paper they are printed on now.
Both magazines tried to get me to renew for about $1 per issue and I could not justify renewing.
Other DAW's are featured more in SOS but I agree that part of the blame must go to MOTU.
Some of this is due to DP's market share in Europe as well as here in the USA,we all love DP but it does not have the user base or visibility of the competition.I can't tell you many times I have talked to some one who wants to get into DAW based music production, they will mention Logic,Cubase etc....I will mention Digital Performer and more often than not I will get a puzzled blank look , what is Digital Performer???
MOTU is a great company with a great product but they need to develop better marketing strategy as well as implementation.
For a while I was intrigued with trying to get into video production but when I saw how complicated,time consuming as well as expensive this would be(thanks to SOS) I now realize it is better for me to just try to focus on the music.
Yes I wish SOS featured DP more but it is still a good read,it has lots of good info and reviews that I trust.
So while it is not perfect I still like SOS on the whole.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:32 am

Guitar Gaz-- I bet you're going to get some flack over there. I may jump in to help support you. My issue is just that if they want DP users to subscribe they could include two pages for DP. Otherwise I think they must be mentally prepared to lose their DP-using subscribers. They made a cost/benefit analysis I'm sure and decided we're not worth it. I'll give them what they want next time and not renew. Or perhaps close this forum and take up residence at theirs so they know we exist?

Leaving DP off the compatibility chart bugs me. And supposedly they still publish (every 3 months) a DP oriented article by Robin Bigwood. So it's a bummer when a DAW *they cover* is left off the list.

It's also interesting that they have a whole section on video. Can't wait for them to get to a post-scoring shootout between Reaper and Cubase!

DP owns the music for picture segment, but I think SOS's video section is not going to ever delve into scoring to picture. Their approach seems about how to make your own Indy band music video.

Yeah-- it boils down to numbers-- real and perceived. MOTU marketing on the basis of some of the heavyweights who use it might be cool but I'm guessing it will be made up more of film scoring guys. And any way, Danny Elfman's copy of DP counts as exactly ONE unit, same as the kid using PT LE in his bedroom counts as ONE unit.

I'm hopeful about raising our visibility some and making a good showing in the voting at sosawards.com. However, it makes sense, as pointed out earlier, that DAWs that are cheaper and/or cross-platform (Reaper?) just logically will do better if for no other reasons. I suppose MOTU could get some coverage in SOS by making a Windows version you could download for free for 30 days and pay $50 if you like it.

Any way, I'm now considering perhaps doing a run of T-Shirts. Maybe something like "Proud Digital Performer User" with the DP7 logo and then all of us going to NAMM choose a particular day to wear them? I'd sell them through this site at cost or maybe a buck over or something. About time I had a Motunation shirt anyway. We had some done years for UnicorNation that we gave out at the annual NAMM dinner. I lost mine.

Would I be bad for including in very small print (like you see trademark info on shirts) the letters "FSOS?" hehehe

Tomrabbit · Post by **Tomrabbit** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:41 am

kgdrum wrote:yeah it is depressing that SOS does not feature DP enough but it is still better than the other magazines.
I used to subscribe to EM and Keyboard both are not worth the paper they are printed on now.
Both magazines tried to get me to renew for about $1 per issue and I could not justify renewing.
Other DAW's are featured more in SOS but I agree that part of the blame must go to MOTU.
Some of this is due to DP's market share in Europe as well as here in the USA,we all love DP but it does not have the user base or visibility of the competition.I can't tell you many times I have talked to some one who wants to get into DAW based music production, they will mention Logic,Cubase etc....I will mention Digital Performer and more often than not I will get a puzzled blank look , what is Digital Performer???
MOTU is a great company with a great product but they need to develop better marketing strategy as well as implementation.
For a while I was intrigued with trying to get into video production but when I saw how complicated,time consuming as well as expensive this would be(thanks to SOS) I now realize it is better for me to just try to focus on the music.
Yes I wish SOS featured DP more but it is still a good read,it has lots of good info and reviews that I trust.
So while it is not perfect I still like SOS on the whole.

+1

But I will contact SOS and ask for a little more Respect.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:43 pm

If SOS is like most similar publications, it makes money from advertising, not subscribers. The only reason to have subscribers is to attract advertisers. Usually, the subscription revenue will cover some of the cost of printing and mailing, but not all of it.

It may well be that MOTU also doesn't care whether DP users subscribe to SOS either. Their advertising might be directed to Logic, Cubase, and Reaper users, so they will like a magazine that attracts those people as readers.

To get SOS to cover DP, you'd have to identify potential advertisers who won't place copy in SOS because of poor DP coverage. Who would that be?

MOTUnation.com