Conductor track can take a hike for all I care

[FutureLegends]

It does not make any sense to me that I cannot grab and move a marker from the top of the sequence editor, yet I can from within the conductor track, which I have no reason to have open.

Yes, that is plain silly. You can grab the markers and move them in the TO window, not being able to do that in the SE window is inconsequent and unintuitive.
I work a lot in the TO window even when working with pure audio, no MIDI projects too.
But not being able to drag markers in the SE window is a joke.

[jbyerly1]

It's only an opinion but the conductor track is most useful in the events list. Scale tempo's is easiest within the events list to me. but thats just because I spent so many years on Performer before I switched to 7.24 when I could afford the Mac

[Shooshie]

Two things:

Yes, of course you can move markers in the Sequence Editor. You do so in the Conductor Track. Where else would you expect to do it? Markers show up twice: in the Timeline and in the Conductor Track. In the Timeline, they are for using, not moving. With all the grabbing of things you do in the Timeline, you might be thankful that you don't have to worry about accidentally moving a marker. But down in the Conductor track, which may be the top track (or not) right below the timeline, you'll see the same markers floating above the tempo tic-marks. There, you can move them anywhere. That's very definitely the Sequence Editor.

You can even move them in the MIDI Graphic Edit Window if you select "Conductor Track" in the menu at the upper-right of the window, so that makes several place where you can alter Markers and other conductor track items.

Ok, #2: the Event List is and always has been a fast and minimalist edit window. I used it starting with Performer version 1.x, but I can tell you that I was never so happy as to get graphic editing for altering tempos. Especially scaling a ritardando or accelerando. There are two VERY fast ways to scale a lot of tempos in a hurry, and I'm talking about methods other than with the dialog box. One is with the Reshape Tool in one of the graphic windows. The other is with Proportional Drag, selecting a lot of tempos and CONTROL-DRAGGING them up or down. The cursor changes to a cross-hair bead, and when you click and drag one of them, all the selected tempo markers move up or down proportionately.

Incidentally, since Proportional Drags work vertically and horizontally, always use SHIFT to constrain the motion to the axis you desire.

The Event Lists is great for some things, but altering a lot of data proportionately and/or expressively is not its forte.

Shooshie

[FMiguelez]

I work a lot in the TO window even when working with pure audio, no MIDI projects too.
But not being able to drag markers in the SE window is a joke.

A "joke"??? Seriously??? Just because you can't move markers where you would like?

I think the CT track works GREAT in DP. Granted, it could use a couple of extra features, but it is one of those super flexible things in the app.

Besides, like Shooshie said, you CAN move and edit markers in the TO, SE, GE, and in its own window, the Markers window (Shift-K on my system).
In the SE it has its own track where you can mess with them until your heart is content.

Oh, and they can also be moved around, like everything else, using the Shift command.

[TnMike]

I did a song the other day that had tempo changes. I set tempo slider to conductor track and drew in tempo changes. When it got to the 3rd tempo change DP would crash. I discovered it was the click. I turned off the click and no crash. I really need the click, especially during tempo changes. Any ideas what could be causing this?
Thanks...


G5 2.7 GHZ, DP 7.24, MOTU 2408, Ivory, SD2, B4ll, UAD-1, Melodyne, Ramza DA-7,

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Reporting this stuff to MOTU is critical. Thanks.

[TnMike]

Not sure if it is a bug or something I'm doing wrong. Anyone heard of a problem while in conductor mode when changing tempo and the metronome crashes DP?


G5 2.7 GHZ, DP 7.24, MOTU 2408, Ivory, SD2, B4ll, UAD-1, Melodyne, Ramza DA-7,

[Shooshie]

Seems like I was reading about that the other day. I think the solution they found was to turn off the "sync with MIDI in background," or something like that. Maybe someone will chime in here if they remember it being another command. It's one of those preferences.

Shooshie

[EMRR]

Yes, of course you can move markers in the Sequence Editor. You do so in the Conductor Track. Where else would you expect to do it? Markers show up twice: in the Timeline and in the Conductor Track. In the Timeline, they are for using, not moving. With all the grabbing of things you do in the Timeline, you might be thankful that you don't have to worry about accidentally moving a marker.

I forgot about this old thread. I would expect to move markers in the timeline. They are the only thing I use in a timeline. Alas, I can't, so the conductor track has to be open and minimized so I can drag them around. Markers are the only thing I use in the conductor track as well. I do find instances of the conductor track becoming record enabled are less when open than when closed. That's a fault of some kind. But really, for the type of recording I do, there should be an option as to where markers can be moved (or not), and an option to disable the conductor track completely so it doesn't bite you from it's invisible lair.

There really could be a selection in an option tree: "do you (actively) use MIDI? yes/no". The best version of that would kick the conductor track to the curb, and make 'real time' the default time base (Why on earth would that ever be a secondary selection?). I know it's not where DP came from.....that matters not today.

[Prime Mover]

EMRR, this kind of flippant ignorance starts to really set me off, because you're actively ignoring functions and features that a lot of us use every day and couldn't work without. How the heck are we supposed to put in tempo changes or time sig changes? Those are pretty central to many types of music. Even electronic dance music has the odd tempo increase, or grand pause ("Opa Gagnam Style" anyone?). Film and TV scores constantly drop and add beats to account for sudden cues. I can't think of any type of music that doesn't make some use of the features the conductor track has to offer.

I guess I should ask you, how would you propose to do time manipulation without a conductor track?

[EMRR]

Flippant ignorance

Hot and bothered are we?

I never said you shouldn't have these tools. I'm saying they shouldn't be in my way. I quite clearly stated that I don't use these functions, and probably never will. They are just arbitrarily in the way, from my POV, having demonstrably impeded my workflow (read the thread).

There are many things in most DAW's that don't allow them to be driven like a tape recorder, which is what a lot of pro's with hardware do with DAW's. I'm saying DAW's provide new tools at the expense of old working methods, and they shouldn't. It'd be really easy to make these things be preferences. YOU COULD TURN THEM ON IN YOUR PREFERENCES, FOREVER. And I'd never see them. And all would be happy.

I don't do time manipulation, other than the occasional manual stretch of an individual part. The band plays it again. I'm happy as peach pie in july that you stretch the crap out of anything you want.

I still can't get over the fact we can't punch in and out on different tracks at different times on the same pass, like a good tape machine. That's a different thread.....don't anyone get started about how it's all possible through programing and editing; not the same efficiency.

[Prime Mover]

I never said you shouldn't have these tools. I'm saying they shouldn't be in my way. I quite clearly stated that I don't use these functions, and probably never will. They are just arbitrarily in the way, from my POV, having demonstrably impeded my workflow (read the thread.

The reason that these things are so permanent is because they're pretty much CENTRAL to the work of the vast majority of users. It's not only central to users, but it's at the heart of the basic construction of the program: the conductor track is basically the control track for the entire sequence. That's why it's called the "Conductor track", it's like taking away a conductor from a symphony orchestra. The way that DAWs function, and frankly the way they NEED to function, so to have ALL temporal data stored somewhere on the timeline in some form, because it all interacts with everything else. The moment you take different kinds of temporal data and put them in different places (like taking markers off the conductor track), is where the real problems begin. Events cease to respond to basic editing and manipulation commands, any slight problems and things get out of sync, etc. Ensuring that all temporal events are tied with some track means that they all can be edited using the same tools and viewed in the same ways.

Example: I've recorded with everything set to real-time, and I've inserted markers where different sections are. Then I need to make a radio edit and take out this section, how do I ensure the markers beyond that point slide over and are in sync with the audio cut? In some scheme where they aren't on the conductor track, there's no way to control whether they move with the rest of the audio and MIDI events, or which to move with, if you need to overlap material.

"Hiding the conductor track". You can't hide ANY track from the Project timeline. That's the whole purpose of the timeline, and it's one of the uniquenesses of DP that is so important: there's a window in which you can't hide anything, even if you want to, because you'll always know it's there and can work with it. Then there's another window in which you can hide and show anything you want to be able to work more up closely.

The DP workflow philosophy is that if you start allowing a window to hide and show tracks, you then have to spend time getting them back. This is why DP uses the two-window editing workflow. Yes, it forces users to have to look at everything, but see... that's what it's there for and if you don't want to see everything, you switch to the Sequencer window.

I've read your post about 5 times, and I still can't figure out how the conductor track is at ALL in your way. Okay, the bit about it record arming is problematic and a legitimate complaint, but besides that, it's one line of 12pt font on one window, and the other it can be hidden.

[FMiguelez]

This is really getting ridiculous

Go get a program that doesn't use a conductor track. Simple. But don't expect MOTU to change their entire program, and take away an essential tool away from us, just because it troubles you (or whatever).

I suggest locking this thread up. Move on...There's really nothing to see here.

[EMRR]

I'm really not bothered by it anymore, you guys are. I simply saw it pop up again as an old thread and added an update. It's called 'context', people. Possibly as well 'reading with comprehension'. I would guess PrimeMover and FMiguelez haven't bothered to notice the long gap between my posts, and are responding to those over 4 years old, which they already commented on. Certainly not by anything I said the other day.

I really don't get where any of you are reading a suggestion from me that the conductor track should be taken away. Like candy from a child. Never said it. I said it gripes my ass; different. It must be the moon.

Hey, DP's the best, right? That's why I'm here. But it ain't perfect. None of them are. We are in the gripes forum.

Okay, the bit about it record arming is problematic and a legitimate complaint

....right, whole point. I learned to minimize it and leave it there all the time so I could deal with it when it happened.

As to the bit I learned here previously (uh, 4 years ago), you could make markers mobile in the timeline. As a preference. Really simple. Others have agreed here. They move if you want them to, they don't if you don't want them to. You shouldn't have to have a graphics eating track you otherwise don't use on screen at all times, because the timeline bar above it (which looks exactly the same in my world) won't give you access to that function.

As well no track which is purposefully hidden in the window of a single monitor system should ever become record enabled. That is/was a flaw.

[Shooshie]

I'm really not bothered by it anymore, you guys are. I simply saw it pop up again as an old thread and added an update. It's called 'context', people. Possibly as well 'reading with comprehension'. I would guess PrimeMover and FMiguelez haven't bothered to notice the long gap between my posts, and are responding to those over 4 years old, which they already commented on. Certainly not by anything I said the other day.

I really don't get where any of you are reading a suggestion from me that the conductor track should be taken away. Like candy from a child. Never said it. I said it gripes my ass; different. It must be the moon.

Hey, DP's the best, right? That's why I'm here. But it ain't perfect. None of them are. We are in the gripes forum.

Okay, the bit about it record arming is problematic and a legitimate complaint

....right, whole point. I learned to minimize it and leave it there all the time so I could deal with it when it happened.

As to the bit I learned here previously (uh, 4 years ago), you could make markers mobile in the timeline. As a preference. Really simple. Others have agreed here. They move if you want them to, they don't if you don't want them to. You shouldn't have to have a graphics eating track you otherwise don't use on screen at all times, because the timeline bar above it (which looks exactly the same in my world) won't give you access to that function.

As well no track which is purposefully hidden in the window of a single monitor system should ever become record enabled. That is/was a flaw.

Dude, who are you angry at? I've also read your posts, and I don't get what's bothering you so much. There's a definite "lone ranger" vibe emerging from your words, and it seems that those of us who aren't as upset as you over the conductor tracks are the bad guys. I don't think there's anything wrong with our thinking, and I can accept your thinking as a niche that I haven't considered for myself, but I'm sure it's valid if only to you.

Sorry, I don't really have time for arguing about it, but I'll attempt to make a few points. I use the conductor track all the time. You don't have to if you don't want to. Or call it the "marker track" and just use it to move markers around. But this battle over an essential feature annoying you is petulant and a bit strange.

Whatever. It takes all kinds, I guess. If you are the extreme audio contingency who believes that MIDI just gets in the way, well… power to you for hanging in there with DP for so long. There are a number of audio apps that don't do MIDI. They're not as easy to use as DP, so there is a tradeoff, although if MIDI really gets in the way, and if Conductor tracks are really that annoying, maybe you should try some of them. But I can assure you that DP is not about to lose its MIDI heritage. It's too important to nearly everyone ELSE who uses it.

Shooshie