Conductor track can take a hike for all I care

[BobK]

It does not make any sense to me that I cannot grab and move a marker from the top of the sequence editor, yet I can from within the conductor track, which I have no reason to have open.

I agree we should be able to drag markers around there too (it's called the Marker Strip), not just in the Conductor track. I wrote to the MOTU suggestion box about this years ago, and I encourage you to do the same.

BTW, I've found the conductor track useful, even in all-audio projects.

[FMiguelez]

In what I do, arranging happens between musicians before I am involved, and click tracks aren't used. Arranging isn't something that ever happens in the program, so it's not a chapter I'd ever think I'd need to read to utilize DP for recording of sound. I use markers to mark parts of songs on the fly, for easy return to punch-ins, etc. Why I would expect to find descriptions pertaining to the ability to manually drag markers under a chapter on arranging, I really can't guess. I'm saying the tools seem to be thought of and described from the historical perspective of using DP solely for MIDI/arranging work, and not at all from the perspective of those using DP solely for sound recording. It does not make any sense to me that I cannot grab and move a marker from the top of the sequence editor, yet I can from within the conductor track, which I have no reason to have open. It is a tool placement that makes perfect sense from an arranging perspective, and none whatsoever from a sound recording perspective. It is an incomplete utility that can only be used in one way, rather than from multiple naturally intuitive directions. These things should ideally follow one another, from whichever perspective one operates. Hope that makes more sense.

Actually, it doesn't...

The information is there in the manual. It is YOUR responsibility to become familiar with the topics by reading it. Just because you can't find the info where you would like, it doesn't make it as you describe.

And you CAN add markers in the SE (and the GE and TO). I gave the shortcut to do it a lot of posts ago.

[EMRR]

You're not hearing what I'm saying. I never said a word about adding markers. You can't drag them manually in the marker strip but you can in the conductor track; that was the part I said was cool, and a new discovery to me. Dragging manually happens only in the conductor track of the SE, which I don't otherwise need to see or use. I can see the markers at all times in the SE, but I can't drag them manually w/o the conductor track visible. Dragging of markers was added to DP from an arranging POV, and still hasn't been fully implemented from a sound recording POV, IMO. Can you think of another reason why dragging would be inaccessible from the marker strip? It's an assumption that you will have the conductor track open, and have markers locked to arrangements. The description in the manual is tucked under arranging, as you've graciously informed me, and so far the index or TOC has failed to lead me to that information. In many ways, it's a tangential problem related to the depth of the program.

[mhschmieder]

It's funny, because I find the markers even more useful for audio-only projects than for MIDI or mixed projects.

For audio-only projects, I use them as cue points when zoning in on representative sections for getting mix and/or effects levels, or for doing overdubs and/or punch-ins.

BTW, I took a hike with a conductor this weekend.

And Conductor Track can take a haiku, for all I care.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

And Conductor Track can take a haiku, for all I care.

not
one
of
the
trains

but
one
who
can
lead
the
band

some
say
dead
as
winter

[mhschmieder]

Aw, that brought a tear to my eye.

[Shooshie]

Hey Shooshie, did you even read my problem? If I didn't know better, I'd think you were bored, annoyed, and sarcastic when you scanned the thread. I can't even find that pixel that bothers you so much. Maybe my screen res is too low? I tried it on the tube screen, instead of the LCD, and it didn't look or sound any warmer at all.

Sorry, Doug;

There is no pixel. That was a joke. I wouldn't say it was sarcastic; just tinged with irony and more than a little frustration. I felt as though there was nothing left to do but try to be amusing. I thought you'd be amused, too, but I was wrong. [edit] Wait a minute... you laughed earlier! DOH! You got me there! [/edit] I read your post; in fact i read all of your posts. I totally agree with you that the Markers should be draggable from the Sequence Editor, as they are in the Tracks Overview Window. Dragging markers is easy in the Tracks Overview Window: just click it and drag. OPTION-CLICK a marker to lock/unlock it. To toggle the grid on/off, hold down the COMMAND key, click on the marker, and drag. (The COMMAND KEY always does the opposite of how your snap-to-grid option is selected.)

On the other hand, I don't find it difficult to use the Conductor Track in the Sequence Editor. You can minimize the conductor track so that it takes up only a little more than a quarter inch of vertical space in the window at normal resolution. Of course, if you just don't like the Conductor Track, and you refuse to use any other window but the Sequence Editor Window, then I guess you're in a bad place. I really think you'd begin to see the Tracks Overview Window as a powerful ally if you read about it and used it some. And... if your cursor is in the timeline of your Sequence Editor, it's a tiny hop to click on the Tracks Overview tab, drag your marker, and click back to the Sequence Editor.

I wonder if you've read the tips sheet, in which quite a number of lesser-known facts are posted. I just made sure that dragging markers is mentioned in the Tracks Overview Window section. It helps to read up on things that you may not use a lot, for you're always going to learn something you didn't know about DP. Like dragging markers, for instance. So, I guess we've established that the markers can be dragged in the Tracks Overview Window or from any editor that accesses the Conductor Track (including the MIDI Edit Window). But how can I help if you don't LIKE Conductor Tracks or the Tracks Overview Window?

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

There are a lot of features in DP I don't use, and probably never will. I initially objected to Adjust Beats, as I figured that having good rhythm is a core competency for any musician, and has no business in a product marketed to professionals. I wouldn't go near it with a ten foot pole.

Wow, Jim, I think you've misunderstood what Adjust Beats is all about. In fact, A real professional DAW would be lost without it. While it has many uses, the #1 reason that no professional DAW should be without Adjust Beats is because it makes it possible to drop in any freely recorded audio track or to play in a MIDI track without a click track, and to match your sequence with the beats of that track. I don't know of too much music that is machine-accurate in time, nor do I usually enjoy music that IS. It's the humanity that gives music its expression, but if you want to match a sequence to it, you've got to align the sequence's beats with the musical track in question. That's what Adjust Beats is for. But of course there's no reason to use it if you don't want to. I'm just saying, it's not for amateurs; it's for professionals. (amateurs are welcome to use it too, though)

Cheers,

Shoosh

[MIDI Life Crisis]

All these problems could be avoided if there was only a PDF version of the forum. They can put a marker in a conductor track, but they can't make a PDF of this forum. Well I never!

[EMRR]

As I said, its just all so deep; it leads to inconsistencies in operation by nature. I must've read the tips sheets a dozen times or more. There's too much to remember. The manual serves as little more than an overview....at more than 900 pages! It's rare I find anything helpful with the index or TOC. It's usually by accident, when looking for something else. 3.5 years in, and there's tons I don't know. There's tons I'd never expect to need to know, as it doesn't apply to my daily work flow. Or so it seems.

I've not made any habit of looking at the tracks overview window historically, since you couldn't expand it vertically until DP6. New habits haven't formed, beyond cataloging outboard signal path settings in the comment window there. It's true; I look at the SE and mixer windows almost exclusively. Ya know, the Movie track has never bitten me; thus the fact I've no complaints with it!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

... 3.5 years in, and there's tons I don't know...

I could actually say the same thing about Word, Photoshop, Acrobat, and even my Mac for that matter. The problem is that everyone has a slightly (or largely) different use of the program. As a result, there is always going to be features someone will never use. It's akin to TV service. Out of the 9999+ channels on my dish TV, I watch maybe 10 or 12 and the rest could... well... they could take a hike for all I care! ?:)

Come to think of it, I don't think I've really scratched the surface on what my piano can do, and that's after 40 years of playing seriously. Guess I'm just a slow learner... and low. <vbg>

[TnMike]

I love the conductor track, but I've had it record enable on its own too.


G5 2.7 GHZ, DP 7.24, MOTU 2408, Ivory, SD2, B4ll, UAD-1, Melodyne, Ramza DA-7,

[Prime Mover]

The conductor track definitely has it's shortcomings, though, it's an area I could see improvement in.

One of my biggest problems is trying to manually create tempo changes. The tempo map is SO zoomed out that you practically have to make the CT full screen, vertically, in order to make any alterations. I don't understand why they don't have a zoom feature on the Tempo map, just like MIDI or pitch data zooms. Also, I'd like to be able to see the tempo map in a line mode, not just a point mode.

Also, knowing that the CT takes can't store markers bothers me. As far as I know, markers are attached to the CT, so it would be nice to be able to make different marker takes. But I guess markers are one of those weird little things like Comp data, which really isn't stored on any track, but is a sequence-wide attachment. These types of data bother me. If it's not attached to a particular track, then it becomes more difficult to edit and flow with the rest of the tracks. Temporal data should really always be attached to something you can manipulate.

[Shooshie]

The conductor track definitely has it's shortcomings, though, it's an area I could see improvement in.

One of my biggest problems is trying to manually create tempo changes. The tempo map is SO zoomed out that you practically have to make the CT full screen, vertically, in order to make any alterations. I don't understand why they don't have a zoom feature on the Tempo map, just like MIDI or pitch data zooms. Also, I'd like to be able to see the tempo map in a line mode, not just a point mode.

In the Conductor Track, if you want the tempo markers to vertically fill the space, go to the tempo scale on the left, click at the level of the fastest tempo, then drag down to the bottom of the scale. Now your tempos fill the track vertically. This makes it much easier to do meaningful edits with the Reshape Tool.

As for Line Mode tempos, I'd like to see that, too. Contact MOTU and suggest it.

Shoosh

[Phil O]

In the Conductor Track, if you want the tempo markers to vertically fill the space, go to the tempo scale on the left, click at the level of the fastest tempo, then drag down to the bottom of the scale.

You can also just drag from your fastest tempo to your slowest tempo, or vice versa. I don't know if it always worked that way, but it works that way in 7.24. You can then just click on the scale (no drag) to toggle between your new zoom setting and full scale.

Philippe