Reaper user ripping off DP's Producer theme?

[Shooshie]

Someone asked for a full-sized screenshot of the Producer Theme from MOTU, but they retracted their post before I could respond. Here's the screenshot:

DELETED

Shooshie

[Shooshie]

Now, if you want something gorgeous, you might try:

DELETED

Just one of my favorites, that's all.

Shoosh

[James Steele]

Actually Shooshie, they didn't retract their post. I deleted it. The person posting was a Reaper user who wanted someone to post full size screen shots so that he could then copy the bitmap graphics and then paste them into a graphics program to make them into a theme for Reaper. I'm sketchy on the issue of copyright here, but if Producer is unique to DP and created at MOTU, I'd rather not have someone lifting those graphics and using without permission for a Reaper theme, which will then most likely be posted at the Reaper site and shared among Reaper users.

Same thing goes for Andy's mods. You want that look, buy DP and you can have it. Or you can spend the effort in Photoshop copying their efforts from scratch, but I don't think I want us to be supplying fullsize screenshots so people can lift these themes by copying and pasting the graphics to get in the ballpark. If they want, they can buy one of Andy's themes or go to a friend's house who has DP, but I won't aid in any "theme technology transfer" as it were between DP and Reaper, etc.

Not trying to give you a hard time and I hope you understand that's my policy here. I don't want to help people lift the look and feel of DP through "the back door" by providing full size screen shots.

[James Steele]

That said, if people want to post screenshots that they've scaled down in Photoshop, etc. before posting, I'm fine. That way they are not useful for someone attempting to reverse engineer a theme by using full size graphic elements.

[FMiguelez]

I'm sketchy on the issue of copyright here, but if Producer is unique to DP and created at MOTU, I'd rather not have someone lifting those graphics and using without permission for a Reaper theme, which will then most likely be posted at the Reaper site and shared among Reaper users.

It would've given SOS magazine a good Reaper article subject for next month

Oh, no! I wonder what they will talk about in that column now

You want that look, buy DP and you can have it. Or you can spend the effort in Photoshop copying their efforts from scratch, but I don't think I want us to be supplying fullsize screenshots so people can lift these themes by copying and pasting the graphics to get in the ballpark. If they want, they can buy one of Andy's themes or go to a friend's house who has DP, but I won't aid in any "theme technology transfer" as it were between DP and Reaper, etc.

+10000000000

I totally agree with that.

[kassonica]

Oh BTW James you have another friend on GS because of this

[Shooshie]

Actually Shooshie, they didn't retract their post. I deleted it. The person posting was a Reaper user who wanted someone to post full size screen shots so that he could then copy the bitmap graphics and then paste them into a graphics program to make them into a theme for Reaper. I'm sketchy on the issue of copyright here, but if Producer is unique to DP and created at MOTU, I'd rather not have someone lifting those graphics and using without permission for a Reaper theme, which will then most likely be posted at the Reaper site and shared among Reaper users.

Same thing goes for Andy's mods. You want that look, buy DP and you can have it. Or you can spend the effort in Photoshop copying their efforts from scratch, but I don't think I want us to be supplying fullsize screenshots so people can lift these themes by copying and pasting the graphics to get in the ballpark. If they want, they can buy one of Andy's themes or go to a friend's house who has DP, but I won't aid in any "theme technology transfer" as it were between DP and Reaper, etc.

Not trying to give you a hard time and I hope you understand that's my policy here. I don't want to help people lift the look and feel of DP through "the back door" by providing full size screen shots.

Well, good grief. I never even THOUGHT of that. You're right, though; shots of the mods should be scaled down to prevent THEME piracy!

That's a real shame, because you do not get the full beauty of either Andy's or MOTU's mods until you see them full-screen on your own monitor. It was always hard for me to choose mods for that reason; I had to see them "in the wild" before I could really relate to them. In fact, I created a series of screenshots of every one of them just for my own use. Each one is in exactly the same setup as all the others, captured at the same bar and beat for meter continuity, so that I can flip through them in Quicklook at full-screen and see how they affect me, without having to adjust for changes of in the positions of GUI elements.

I was fully ready to post them for all, to help everyone choose their themes, but it didn't even occur to me that someone would be out there pirating these themes. But you're right. There are a lot of decisions behind every element of every window, in every type of situation. Designing a GUI is a laborious process. Posting them in full resolution is just giving away all that work.

Well, my apologies for falling for what should have been obvious. I did notice that the guy had only one post. I figured that when nobody responded to his request, he just got intimidated, thinking it was too much to ask, and deleted his post.

Shoosh

[James Steele]

Oh BTW James you have another friend on GS because of this

Oh well. I didn't remove the OP, just the post. The OP was not even a DP user, but a Reaper user who came here and registered to make a single post requesting DP users to post screenshots for him of DP's "Producer" theme so he could make it into a Reaper theme. I had a problem with that on a very visceral level. Not only is there a potential copyright issue, but I don't think it's fair to ask DP users to help you co-opt something that's unique to DP for Reaper.

If you want to do that, you can but turn to the Reaper community for help with that-- not this one.

[James Steele]

Well, good grief. I never even THOUGHT of that. You're right, though; shots of the mods should be scaled down to prevent THEME piracy!

That's a real shame, because you do not get the full beauty of either Andy's or MOTU's mods until you see them full-screen on your own monitor. It was always hard for me to choose mods for that reason; I had to see them "in the wild" before I could really relate to them. In fact, I created a series of screenshots of every one of them just for my own use. Each one is in exactly the same setup as all the others, captured at the same bar and beat for meter continuity, so that I can flip through them in Quicklook at full-screen and see how they affect me, without having to adjust for changes of in the positions of GUI elements.

I was fully ready to post them for all, to help everyone choose their themes, but it didn't even occur to me that someone would be out there pirating these themes. But you're right. There are a lot of decisions behind every element of every window, in every type of situation. Designing a GUI is a laborious process. Posting them in full resolution is just giving away all that work.

Well, my apologies for falling for what should have been obvious. I did notice that the guy had only one post. I figured that when nobody responded to his request, he just got intimidated, thinking it was too much to ask, and deleted his post.

Shooshie... you have NOTHING to apologize for. It's just a testimony to your characteristic unselfishness that your first reflex is to jump to help someone else. It's one of the character traits that makes you an extraordinary person and an invaluable member of the DP user community.

I likewise always like to help when I can. And I don't think the person posting meant anything bad by it. I'm sure the thought didn't occur to him either. He's just a Reaper user whom I assume saw some screenshots of DP's new themes feature, particularly Producer, and coveted that look for his own DAW, Reaper. And I don't mean to be unsympathetic, but to be honest, it's still fresh in my mind that DP got reduced to limited coverage in SOS, while Reaper (which you pay for on the honor system, BTW) was just given a monthly feature in SOS. So go ahead... call me a poor sport... but I don't feel all that motivated to help out when a Reaper user joins a Digital Performer forum for the sole purpose of asking for full-size screenshots of MOTU's Producer theme so it can be co-opted into Reaper and then shared amongst the Reaper community.

Apparently I'm already taking heat for this at GS, but I just don't like the idea of this board being used to take something developed by MOTU for DP, so that it can be used to improve a competing DAW like Reaper. I'm sure it can and may still be done, but I see no need to make it easy.

On an related note, Andy Selby sent out an email saying he's received lots of requests for him to post full-size screenshots of his themes in DP. I wrote to him with a link to this thread, and advised him that he might wish to reconsider lest he see unauthorized AMPGUI Reaper themes. By the same token, I suggested to Andy that he might want to look into converting his themes into Reaper themes and making them available *officially.* At least this way, he might at least make a little money for his efforts.

[amplidood]

Is Reaper really worth digging into? It always felt half baked every time I tried it.

[Shooshie]

It would probably be a lot of work to convert those themes for Reaper, but I think it's a good idea if he wants to do it, just so the actual thing exists, and any copies then become real piracy. That might become a deterrent, though I wonder what is being deterred. It sounds like the Reaper community is pretty much a community built around a free DAW. I suspect it would be hard to get much monetary support for your efforts from people who don't even pay for their basic tools.

I don't know about posting full-resolution graphics. On the one hand, it WOULD make it easier to copy parts of the interface, but as you well know, it takes more than a clipboard of the full graphics to make a GUI. There are so many behind-the-scene connections, and pixel-precise multi-graphic files that I pity the poor fool who tries to approach GUI piracy from that direction! Still, being able to sample the colors and just redraw images in the general shapes of the existing ones would be a jump-start to anyone making their own GUI's, and even reducing the size won't prevent that. Yet everyone's got to be able to promote their stuff with screenshots, so it seems that a reduced version is the best compromise at this point. I'm certainly agreeable to that as a policy here.

Shooshie

[kassonica]

Oh BTW James you have another friend on GS because of this

Oh well. I didn't remove the OP, just the post. The OP was not even a DP user, but a Reaper user who came here and registered to make a single post requesting DP users to post screenshots for him of DP's "Producer" theme so he could make it into a Reaper theme. I had a problem with that on a very visceral level. Not only is there a potential copyright issue, but I don't think it's fair to ask DP users to help you co-opt something that's unique to DP for Reaper.

If you want to do that, you can but turn to the Reaper community for help with that-- not this one.

Well I think it's outrageous that someone from reaper should post here wanting to rip off DP themes.....

Now he has requested the same on GS

[FMiguelez]

Well I think it's outrageous that someone from reaper should post here wanting to rip off DP themes.....

I guess that's what some reapers do

They get their app for free, so why should they have to pay for some stupid theme or graphics that took someone else days to do?

[James Steele]

Well I think it's outrageous that someone from reaper should post here wanting to rip off DP themes.....

Now he has requested the same on GS

Well, I don't necessarily fault him. I think it's just that when you work with a DAW that has a loosey-goosey pricing arrangement where you download full working copies and then pay on the honor system-- and even WHAT you pay if you choose to is based on your honestly representing what you earn as a studio, etc.-- you're kinda assuming that everything that's ones and zeros is free for the taking.

I'm sure he'll find what he needs eventually to re-create the Producer theme for Reaper, but I just didn't feel asking this community to help by providing screenshots was entirely appropriate.

[James Steele]

Oh too funny. And the couple of usual suspects with their ax to grind about this place chimed in. One saying that he'll never use DP because of this forum. It's not a company-run site, Einstein. And if you know this, then could there be more pointless a gesture?