Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Digital Perfomer in the context of television/film scoring and post-production.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
This forum is for discussion related to the use of Digital Perfomer in the context of television and film scoring and post-production.
Post Reply
User avatar
BKK-OZ
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oztrailia
Contact:

Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by BKK-OZ »

Interesting article in the Guardian about trends in payment for music composition.

If we believe that music is a living artform then it stands to reason that the creation of new music is vital to its current and future health. However, professional composers are being asked to create new music for very little money in conditions that are too often inadequate. As a sector we have some hard questions to ask ourselves about our priorities.
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
dosuna11
Posts: 1130
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Mountlake Terrace, Washington
Contact:

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by dosuna11 »

Sad to say I feel this is trending in most areas of music. Great signature about atomic sub-particles.
iMac 2.7Ghz quadcore i5 16 gig RAM DP 7.24 OS 10.6.8, iMac G5 2.1GHz 2.5 gig Ram DP 5.13 OS 10.4.11 MOTU 828 MK2, East West Platinum Plus, Miroslav Philharmonic, Komplete 5, Kontakt 2 Garritan Big Band, Mr Sax T, The Trumpet, DrumCore, Trilogy and Trillian, Ivory, MachFive, Ethno Instrument, Reason 4, SampleTank 2 Sampletron, Samplemoog, Melodyne Editor, Nomad plugins, Vintage Warmer, Ozone 4, Amplitube Jimi, Xgear and AmpegSVX.
http:www.davidosuna.com
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by FMiguelez »

BKK-OZ wrote:Interesting article in the Guardian about trends in payment for music composition.
Interesting article, indeed.
Down here, producers want more for less each time :shake:

Thanks for posting that link, BKK.
dosuna11 wrote:Great signature about atomic sub-particles.
Agreed. It's a great and musical quote (even if it's incomplete in BKK's sig).

Too bad it's one of the most quote-mined and abused quotes there are, probably up there with some of Einstein's (the middle part of it doesn't mean what most people think it does... Hint> It has to do more with Spinoza's philosophy. Even some... Dare I say it? Panthe... No. I don't dare saying that word here) :brucelee:


STFU, Fernando!!! :roll:
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
BKK-OZ
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oztrailia
Contact:

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by BKK-OZ »

FMiguelez wrote: It's a great and musical quote (even if it's incomplete in BKK's sig).
Incomplete?

Sure, my signature does not include the totality of Kaku's thoughts. The guy has written a bunch of books and spoken publicly for years, no one could have a signature that big!

But the quote is not incomplete, it is something he has said.

See a transcript here: http://www.floatinguniversity.com/kaku-transcript-2 (paragraph 7)
And listen to him here: http://bigthink.com/videos/the-universe ... -strings-2
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by FMiguelez »

I didn't mean it as a critique, BKK :)

It's just that the version I'm familiar with, the one I've always read, says a little more.
But I admit your version does capture the essence and the most beautiful part of it.

This is the complete version I know from Dr. Kaku (this same quote shows in many other places, but they appear in heavily religious contexts, James' favorite :mrgreen: , and he would not be pleased if I post the links here):

So string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of g**, the mind of g** that Einstein eloquently wrote about for the last 30 years of his life. For the first time in history, we now have a candidate for the mind of g**. It is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace. That is the mind of g**.



Doing a simple search, I notice that Dr. Kaku liberally quotes himself and adds and takes out little parts off it.

So, to my surprise, there doesn't appear to be an "official" version of it. You're right about that.

For instance, we also have:

What is physics? Physics is nothing but the laws of harmony that you can write on vibrating strings. What is chemistry? Chemistry is nothing but the melodies you can play on interacting vibrating strings. What is the universe? The universe is a symphony of vibrating strings. And then what is the mind of g** that Albert Einstein eloquently wrote about for the last 30 years of his life? We now, for the first time in history have a candidate for the mind of g**. It is, cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
So first of all, we are nothing but melodies. We are nothing but cosmic music played out on vibrating strings and membranes. Obeying the laws of physics, which is nothing but the laws of harmony of vibrating strings.



So I suppose your quote is like mine in the sense that Dr. Dawkins quotes himself and repeats his explanation by very similar means and words in different contexts (I transcribed mine from a veeeeeeery good debate, BTW).

Anyway, your Kaku quote really rocks (with the caveat I mentioned in my previous post about its meaning of that part).


Now, I suggest we don't discuss this any further here, lest we get our butts kicked for breach of the FUA :oops:

PMs would be better for this :)



Now, about those trends in payments for musical composition...
Last edited by FMiguelez on Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
BKK-OZ
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oztrailia
Contact:

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by BKK-OZ »

FMiguelez wrote:I didn't mean it as a critique, BKK
No worries brother, I didn't take it that way, I just didn't know what you meant. Thanx for clarifying.

Yeah, them composers aren't getting their due, are they?
:D
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
DanielCoe
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:32 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: United States of America

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by DanielCoe »

This is nothing new. Many of the greats often survived on the generosity of patrons or taught music lessons for a living. Few had financial success in their time.

That being said, composers have to know what to charge and not be afraid to ask for it (or demand it)!! This goes across the board: the time it takes to write, demo, and revise, then prep it for recording (including any scores and parts that need to be prepared), the cost of the studio, the engineer, the musicians, and the mixing and mastering!! Part of the composer's job is to educate producers on the process and its demands of quality is expected!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mac Pro (Mid 2010) 2 x 2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
128GB RAM
MOTU 2408 mk3
Mac OS 10.14.6
User avatar
monkey man
Posts: 13918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by monkey man »

I don't think it was necessary to censor the quote, 'Nandito.

It wasn't a discussion about religion, after all... nor poly ticks, for that matter; all you were doing was providing a more expansive version of the quote, IMHO.

Still, it's funny how we walk on eggshells and get nervous (I do at least) when we stray from the line and meander towards the outer limits of the boundaries set here, even a little, and with good reason. Those areas which are verboten are justifiably made so in order to protect us kiddies from being naughty and creating mayhem. :lol:

As a songwriter, this sux., BK! Confirmation of what we already knew, but IMHO it's our right to lament such things and wallow in our steadily-progressing demise. :?

Something's gotta give sooner or later...

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
Novation, Yamaha & Roland Synths, Guitar & Bass, Kemper Rack

Pretend I've placed your favourite quote here
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by Gravity Jim »

A friend who scores TV in LA (in fact, I think he may still be a member of this very online forum) told me a funny story about attending a big powwow of big scoring muckity-mucks, where everybody was getting together to bitch about this very subject.

He arrived at vast parking in his Mini Cooper. But he said, "the rest of the line of cars was Tesla, Tesla, Tesla, Bentley, Maserati, Tesla, Tesla, Betley Tesla... and I'm thinking, what have you guys got to complain about?"

So I take these reports with two grains of salt and a lump of sugar.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
monkey man
Posts: 13918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Composers undervalued, 'Sound & Music' report

Post by monkey man »

... just not as much sugar as the Bentley and Maserati owners. :lol:

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
Novation, Yamaha & Roland Synths, Guitar & Bass, Kemper Rack

Pretend I've placed your favourite quote here
Post Reply