Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Digital Perfomer in the context of television/film scoring and post-production.

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donadi
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Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by donadi »

Hello,
I've been going nuts trying to connect my DP8 MacPro to another Mac running Logic with a movie loaded.
I get a real good sync through MTC but I can't figure out how to get the wiper to scrub and send sync while scrubbing, I've read on the manual that this must be done with MMC, however when MMC is enabled, DP gets into slave mode and not master.
Am I missing something? I come from Logic and Pro Tools where there's a " send MMC" function.

Anyone using slave computer for movies?

Thanks in advance.
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bralston
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by bralston »

VideoSlave is your friend here. Made for this purpose and does it extremely well. While it should work, salving to another DAW is a bit over overkill. Get their demo and see what you think.

http://www.non-lethal-applications.com/ ... slave.html

FYI...DP will not send MMC over network MIDI ports only MTC can be sent over network MIDI. So if you want scrubbing, MMC has to come from DP via hardwired MIDI cables. Otherwise...MTC can be sent over ethernet from DP and it VideoSlave will sync to it in less than an second.
Regards,

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donadi
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by donadi »

Hi Brian,
Thanks for all your detailed infos, as you can see I dropped DP for 6 months and went back to Logic to do a project.
I'm still trying to figure this out and would love to give DP another chance, however I need the ability to do frame by frame to a slaved computer (that has VideoSlave running or Pro Tools).
When i'm using Logic on my main computer, VideoSlave (still running the demo) responds to frame by frame just like Pro Tools. Why can't I do that with DP?
I tried the MIDI Machine Control window in DP but it puts it in slave mode, I want DP to be the master and Pro Tools (or VideoSlave) to be the slave.
By the way the MTC sync is perfect, my problem is with the transports (MMC) and especially with the frame by frame function.
PS: I'm on a wired MIDI sync.
How can you work on a film without the ability to do frame by frame? I would be curious to know.
Thanks in advance
Dani
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bralston
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by bralston »

If you are on a wired MIDI cable connection to the VideoSlave computer...then make sure you have MMC control set up in the OSX Audio/MIDI device list...and that you have that MIDI connection enabled for MMC. This is an OSX system thing...not in DP.

Then DP will see it at a MMC device.

Also..DP can not at the moment do MMC over network MIDI connections...which I have talked with Dave Roberts about...but as of yet...it has not been addressed. They have a lot fo things on their list I am sure.
Regards,

Brian Ralston

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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by doodles »

or use VirtualVTR made by gallery. transmit MMC from one mac to another.
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by djwizprod »

Virtual VTR by Gallery is by far the most widely used and most accurate piece of software for this purpose, it's pricey, but sometimes you might find it on Ebay for a steal. I recently purchased Video Slave for a second studio because the price can't be beat, and was very disappointed in the accuracy of lock up time and simply just the sync seemed very random, always by a frame or two here and there, that's not acceptable. We do regular ADR sessions with Technicolor at Paramount, and Warner Brothers, from Detroit to Hollywood, and VVTR is the gold standard across the board, and has performed flawlessly on multiple Network and Cable TV productions. Plus we use it daily for Advertising post production, scoring, and sound design.
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by sndmarks »

Hate to revive an old thread, but here we go.....

Been running video on a separate MacMini with DP and now with Video Slave. I'm syncing via MTC hard patched between MTP-AVs hanging off each computer. The video machine will see the incoming MTC and sync up just fine.

What's missing is scrubbing and frame-by-frame advance which is supposed to be available via MMC. I've clicked the boxes to setup MMC in AudioMidi setup and tried turning it on within DP but it doesn't work.

Anyone have any insight to share or guidance to offer? Brian, it seems like you had it working at some point. Is it still working for you in DP8.07?
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by dewdman42 »

I'm just using the beta of VideoSlave2 and trying to do the same thing. MTC works, but MMC and scrubbing, no dice. I'm wondering if anyone has MMC working with DP and VideoSlave. The author of VideoSlave told me that MMC doesn't work over ethernet. He was told by MOTU that his is a problem in Apple's IAC implementation, but that he doesn't believe them since it works fine with Logic and Cubase.

That was about IAC over ethernet. I am trying to do it now on the same machine over IAC. But I have no idea whether MMC is even being sent to VideoSlave from DP or not this way. Dp doesn't have anything for transmit MMC, only transmit MTC. It appears that in DP we are supposed to create a MIDI device bundle and check the MMC checkbox. However, beats me how that can then be connected to an IAC port so that VideoSlave can receive it.

Also the DP manual says something about MMC devices needing to send SMPTE back to DP for some reason. They need to receive MMC and send back SMPTE. VideoSlave does not send back SPMTE I don't think.

Well I would love to find out of VideoSlave will work with DP as I'd like to setup a small mac mini with the TV in my studio and use it as a dedicated video device. Seems like without scrubbing I will just end up using the built in video instead. But this sounds like something MOTU can solve, if its not solved already, since both Logic and Cubase apparantly work flawlessly with VideoSlave. But Dp is the best DAW for film scoring, so hope MOTU can address this. In the meantime, if anyone has successfully gotten the MMC scrubbing working between DP and VideoSlave, please let us know

By the way the VideoSlave2 beta I am trying is very nice, its greatly improved on the previous version and I'm almost certainly going to buy it, but this MMC issue might be a showstopper, not sure yet.
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by dewdman42 »

Also I notice that currently if we move the playback wiper, it doesn't sync up video Slave until you release the mouse button to set the new wiper location. I guess this is what people mean by no scrub. Kind of useless without that feature honest. :-(.

Also I can't find a way to advance the playback wiper in DP by one frame at a time. I can only grab it with the mouse and try to move it but its very hard to be precise that way to get to the exact frame in the video I want. I believe if the video is in DP directly then you can advance the movie window one frame at a time and do that sort of work, but apparantly not over MIDI to VideoSlave... Is that what the MMC stuff would enable, if we could get it working?

Very sad that it doesn't work

I wish there were some key commands to nudge the playback wiper in DP by a frame at a time, it would be very very helpful...would almost make VideoSlave useful even without MMC, but without one or the other, I don't think I can justify VideoSlave for DP use.
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by dewdman42 »

So I had a chance to try out Video Slave with Logic Pro X. It works perfectly. MMC is sent. You can scrub the video forward and back and watch the video scrub along with what you do in Logic. You can nudge the playback wiper in logic forward and back by a frame at a time, etc.. VideoSlave follows every move exactly and plays back exactly in sync.

So whatever MOTU is trying to say, there is nothing about IAC that is not cabable of this. DP is missing some key features related to sending MMC I think. I think DP is designed to only handle MMC with hardware MMC devices or some such thing. Not sure, as I don't have any. But what I can say is that DP and VideoSlave really does not work very well as is. VideoSlave works totally awesome with LogicProX. Too bad I'd rather use DP for my scoring DAW, but this particular aspect, DP drops the ball.

I've put in a feature request to MOTU, but I doubt it will see the light of day.
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by Macrozonaris »

DP not being able to send MMC to Pro Tools (scrubbing) is a HUGE downside. I'm even considering to switching to Cubase for this reason alone. In film scoring world this is absolutely crucial. If Cubase and Logic can do it, why can't DP?
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by dewdman42 »

It is disappointing, I agree. I think this is a hold over in that they must have implemented MMC related code a very very long time ago when it didn't make any sense to need to send MMC to anything other than hardware devices such as motu hardware. Hard to say really, but unfortunate that this will probably not be addressed any time soon as its way far off the radar. I have put in an official request for this and I suggest you do the same. Video Slave really can't be used with DP very effectively either due to this limitation. And of course any kind of software to software sync can sometimes be limited by not being able to send MMC over virtual MIDI ports.
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donadi
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by donadi »

That is the reason why I had to let DP go, as much as I love DP and all it's film features.
I could not figure out how to make this happen, scrubbing a slaved video hosted into another DAW on another computer (in my case Pro Tools) with MMC is impossible with DP using just a MIDI interface (not a MOTU interface) and i don't understand how can someone work without moving frame by frame and scrubbing to find what you need in a movie.
I still come occasionally to this forum to see if someone found a solution, but apparently not.
I'm now working on Cubase Pro 8, and it does allow you to send MMC to a slave computer.
Very sad!!!
Dani Donadi

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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by dewdman42 »

FYI, I believe DP can in fact send MMC to another computer as long as its going over a physical MIDI interface. But you can't send MMC over IAC MIDI, nor over ethernet MIDI, as those are not true MIDI interfaces...But if you have an actual MIDI interface with a driver for it...then DP allows you to specify that MMC can be sent to that hardware MIDI interface and lets you check the box for that and thus it happens, since the device appears as an actual "device". DP only lets you check the box for sending MMC to actual devices, and apparently virtual MIDI ports, IAC and so forth do not count.

So if you have two computers, if you put a MIDI interface on each one and use a MIDI cable, then you can make it all work with VideoSlave and MMC. But you can't use ethernet, which would be much nicer and no need for MIDI hardware, so...wish MOTU would enable the ability to send MMC over virtual MIDI. it would be an easy add.
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donadi
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Re: Anyone slaving another computer to display movie

Post by donadi »

I am using a hardware MIDI interface (Emagic AMT8) with a MIDI cable, the MMC box is checked on the driver and still don't get MMC sent from DP to another computer. Anyone knows if it takes a special MIDI interface?????
Dani Donadi

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